That's what it's all about...

[Ishmael]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

This brought back memories of an ancient email from over a decade ago:

You forgot the phrase they probably used:

Ila Allah Illalah(hope my spelling is correct)

There is no God but God

Be sure to keep fingers firmly crossed behind your back.

In late 1978, I was offered a job by Raytheon to train the Shah of Iran's navy in weapons system & ASW operations in Bandar Abbas. I turned the job down because I had already been to Bandar Abbas & knew what it was like. Had I taken the job, I fould have been the 53rd hostage telling everybody what a great guy I thought Khomeini was. Just give me that plane ticket and I'll go back & tell everybody. Either that or doing the backstroke across the Hormus Straits to Oman.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

...., after all: conversion.

Back on topic and in great detail, here's Robert Spencer's new article Fox News and Forced Conversions.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Ishmael

You forgot the phrase they probably used:

Ila Allah Illalah(hope my spelling is correct)

There is no God but God

Be sure to keep fingers firmly crossed behind your back.

We say "Laa Ilaha Illallah" which translates into "There is no lord worthy of worship except Allah." This is only half of the Shahada (Kalima). In full the Shahada is as follows:

"Ashhadu Alla Ilaha Illa Allah Wa Ashhadu Anna Muhammad Rasulu Allah."

This translates into "I bear witness that there is no deity other than Allah (swt) and that Muhammad (saw) is his servant and Messenger."

On a side note you may be asking why I follow the name of Allah with (swt) and Muhammad with (saw). They are basically terms of respect and reverence for God (in the case of S.W.T.), and for all of the prophets (in the case of S.A.W.) which Muhammad (saw) was the last.

S.W.T. is short for "Subhanahu wa ta'ala" which basically means "praised and exalted is he."

S.A.W. is short for "Salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam" which translates into "May the blessings and the peace of Allah be upon him. Muslims use this when addressing all of the prophets including Moses, Jesus, Abraham, Mohammad, Adam, and Noah.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

They were probably paid off by the local iman

I think you mean to say imam. Iman is what we use to describe ones faith or firm inner beliefs. In Islam there are 6 fundamental articles of faith or iman.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Judaism's view of blessings.

Before eating we simply say "Bismillah" which means "In the name of Allah."

On the article you linked to regarding blessings it is in principle the same in Islam which is outlined in the 6th article of iman (faith). We believe that all things come from Allah (swt). So if something good happens then we should thank Allah (swt). As is said in the Holy Qu'ran, Al-Imran Surah 3 Ayah 103:

"And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah."

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

if something good happens then we should thank Allah (swt).

Judaism has a blessing for bad things as well.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Judaism has a blessing for bad things as well.

As does Islam because all things come from G_d.

[Takeda Shingen]

I don't care what they say; I like onions.

[Skybird]

Blessings nice and well, but when the cook makes a bad job, dinner nevertheless is messed up, no matter the blessing. Instead of mumbling magical spells, better learn cooking (that's why your deity of choice probably has granted you that ability to learn to cook). Instead of expecting a deity to fix what you mess up, learn to do better yourself. Help yourself, than your idol helps you, or not, it doesn't matter. Brake it yourself, and it remains broken. Superstitious rituals - while holding them, more than one cup of coffee grew cold in history. I hate cold coffee.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Blessings nice and well, but when the cook makes a bad job, dinner nevertheless is messed up, no matter the blessing. Instead of mumbling magical spells, better learn cooking (that's why your deity of choice probably has granted you that ability to learn to cook). Instead of expecting a deity to fix what you mess up, learn to do better yourself. Help yourself, than your idol helps you, or not, it doesn't matter. Brake it yourself, and it remains broken. Superstitious rituals - while holding them, more than one cup of coffee grew cold in history. I hate cold coffee.

When did you taste my cooking?

[Konovalov]

@ Skybird,

I wasn't aware that you were of the strange view that Jews, Christians, Muslims and so on mumble magical spells at dinnertime.

Relax Bird of the Sky.

[Skybird]

You humans are too credulous!

In Vayrajana (Tibetan Buddhism), they have four lineages, each of which has it'S own master-Buddhist. for the Gelupas it is the famous Dalai Lama. For the Kagyupas, it is the so-called Karmapa. When a Karmapa died in past time, it was a habit to burn his body, which is okay for me. But that after the fire is out, followers searched desperately the ashes to find pieces of small bones, declare them a holy relic and a.) spend the rets of their life worshipping it, or b.) sell it for riodiculous sums of money to easy-minded believers, is not okay and in fact brings the whole idea of a fire for funeral to collapse. Magical rituals, superstitious nonsens.

Your Gods, so you believe, have created you, so they have given you all your abilities and potentials. If they do so, do you think they depend on you little worms saying thanks? What value could it have to them, if you appreciate their deeds, or not? Do you think they have given you your human abilities and creative sparks, your mind to learn and think reasonably and your body to make physical perceptions and get you moving around - for wasting all this and even reject it for making your "spiritual" gymnastics every day? Is your idea of God so limited and small that you think He even cares for your pathetic little efforts? Do you think your God is a character written and designed by some hysteric screenplay writer for a hysteric daily soap? that has to obey your own moral rules? What if your God turns out to be a man-eater - still worhsipping him? How small, how little, how unimportant, how meaningless you Gods appear to me. - If you want to worship what is Devine to you, live your life to the fullest, use the gifts and potentials given to you, and make something of it and use it to the best of yourself and the best of all men. Don't allow your potentials being limited by your man-thought little "religion", close your holy books and burn them for they are manmade things only, no trace of holiness in them, resist all doings that leads to the harm of others, fight those that violate this law, and never stop to be what you are: a human being, great in mind and possebility of self-reflection, each one unique in itself and still embraced by all that is not himself, capable to do what is of light, or what is of shadow - the choice and the karmic consequences are yours.

You people are suffering from a serious lack of self-confidence, and try to compensate that by following a self-declared superior morality. But you have all what you ever could need already inside you, since always, for always. If only you would know! All the shine is inside of you!

When I was a schoolboy, age 17, I think, I had written a certain poem. Maybe I shouldn't have written it at all, for it caused me quite some trouble, but I did, and this is it - some basic ideas always have been on my mind, since my early childhood, it seems.

Sind wirklich Welten vergangen in meinem Leben,
in all jenen Meeren aus Leere und silberner Sterne Schein?
Ich folgte Kometen, Asteroidenschwärmen,
umkreiste in tausend Millarden Jahren das Universum -
wie lang hast du gebraucht, o Seele,
die richtigen Fragen zu stellen?

Denn uns ist gewährt die kosmische Schau
mit blinden Augen -
nicht zu blenden vom Gleiss unzähliger Sonnen.
Und doch wolln wir zählen der Welten Funken,
sie greifen und halten wie wenn's Glühwürmchen wärn,
in einer lauen Spätsommernacht.

Wie gross unser Geist,doch wie klein unser Handeln!
Schaut auf zu den Himmeln:
die Nova von Auriga
scheint uns Hundert Tausend Jahre.
Und säh' sie der Menschen Wimmeln,
wie's sich närrisch zu seinen Göttern erhebt,
blickte sie auf zu den Sternen,
und es berührte sie nicht.
Weil wir nicht richten unser Tun
am kosmischen Wandel,
hörn wir im Hintergrund gutmütig
des Universums schallendes Lachen...!

Die Welt ist ein Traum, den sie träumt,
und so wir denn finden, was wir suchen,
werden wir nicht länger mehr sein.
Weil wir denn folgten dem Ruf der Sterne,
sei uns auch schließlich der Mut gewährt,
zwischen ihnen
uns selbst
gegenüberzutreten.

[The Avon Lady]

Skybird, suggested reading: Letters to a Buddhist Jew.

Your concept of other religions - certainly Judaism - is mangled. And that's an understatement.

[Takeda Shingen]

Interesting. Skybird brings the self-professed sanctity of faith into direct conflict with the hedonism of Nietzchean thought. Dare it be that a discussion of philosophy follows? There may yet be hope for this thread.

[Skybird]

takeda,

Hedonism in Nietzschean thought? Never thought of Nietzsche in that way. How came that to your mind? Nietzsche certainly is diverse, somewhat, and easy to misunderstood. In case of doubt, his "Zarathustra", the first two books, represents most of what I like in him.

AL,

i never talked about the philosophy of "ideal" Judaism, because I simply do not know much about it. But i see that on a superficial level, all religions seem to have a serious weakness of getting absorbed by the dogma, the rites and ceremonies, the hierarchy of priests, all that for the interests of an institution like the churches. Here is where the religions stray off the path that had been pointed by some historic personalities like Siddharta or Jesus. This "outer", or "exoteric" level is what usually is meant when we say "this religion", "that religion". And this is the level at which my attack is aiming, that's why I attacked the discussion about the benefit of this or that kind of blessing and how it is done correctly - it all is the empty, dead, frozen cult, the religion that has nothing to do with religion.

And no, I do not discuss that again. You had those 25 pages "What it's about", if you wanted, and more I do not have to say on that theme. I would end up just repeating myself.