The Silent Hunter IV (Pacific Campaign) WISH-LIST - Page 19

-Pv- · 08-24-06, 07:58 PM

I was pleased with the interview and liked what I heard. I've waited years for this sim and it has the features I expected. I'll be one of the 1st in line. I also expect it will meet or excede SHIII sales based on US sales alone. I'm not a super-critical realist. I've just enjoyed sub sims for the last 20 years and the Pacific has always been my favorite. I want a chance at sinking those many many carriers and their escort fleets. To balance out the small problem of the US technology making hitting and evading easier as the war progresses, you also have to get smarter about finding fewer ships. There were carriers to sink right up to the end and US boats were still being sunk near the end.
-Pv-

Berserker2 · 08-26-06, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edjcox

1. Enemy submarines, seemingly dismissed in Neils interview by UBI. The Japanese submarines posed a significant threatto our submarines and many were engaged and possibly sunk by them. The enormous variety and abilities of Japanese submarines made for interesting adversaries. Midgets, Seaplane carriers present interesting scenarios for missions. Find the mother ships and sink them. Track down

Got to agree completely here. I watched a program on...History, Military..one of those type channels several months ago and they brought out the fact that in WW2 Japan has the largest and most varied submarine fleet of any nation plus the fact that some of their subs were WAY more advanced than Allied AND German boats.

So I cast my vote for having Japanese submarines included for our dining pleasure. (IF we're sharp)

I think the main point just about everyone is trying to emphasize here is that although SH3 was good, it's also yesterdays' news/technology and although some things can be carried over to SH4, we want as big a step forward as was done between SH2 and SH3, the formar being a total disaster IMHO!

Just my 2 cents worth!!

Bill

Hylander_1314 · 09-04-06, 09:19 AM

Guys / Girls,

If this has been mentioned before, bear with me, I've been reading for hours.

When in shallower waters, where you can set the boat on the bottom or run close to it, have it impact the ASW devices as it should. Also where it was known, when you zoom in on the map(s), to have the known depth gradiants there. If the area was uncharted at the time, be careful while sailing there. And let us not forget the tides, as it can effect how you move through shallower areas. Reefs, and crystal clear lagoons, with breakwater waves, to make the clandestine jobs more interesting, and some of the recon and ASR missions.

Nightmare · 09-08-06, 03:31 PM

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but I’d like to see an accurate model of the TDC. The TDC equipped on the US Submarines was just more than the angle solver; it was also a position keeper that kept the solution up to date. That way after several observation and corrections (if necessary) if the final bearing matched that of the projected bearing on the TDC, you knew you had an accurate firing solution.

More info on the TDC here

I'd also like to see an accurate stadimeter with the split prism. You’d need to know the masthead height of your target, but then it’s just a mater of adjusting the superimposed image so that the second image waterline is set to the masthead of the actual image. I never could get accurate ranges with the line adjustment to masthead height in SH3.

MuscleBob.Buffpants · 09-11-06, 08:36 PM

How about realistic damage - if your sub suffers a penetrating hit from a ships gun, it shouldn't be able to submerge without flooding.

Maybe this will remove the tendancy some captains have of dueling on the surface against armed ships.

09-12-06, 08:38 PM

When traveling from Pearl harbor to Bungo Suido, a lot of real time can go by, even
with high time acceleration.

It would really be helpful for those of us who want a campaign but don't always
have (real) time for travel to the patrol area if we had a shortcut taking us to the edge of the assigned grid square.

It has always annoyed me when operating SH3 and I am assigned to the
horn of Africa or the Carribbean and I really haven't the (real) time to wait for the
trip out there (or back).

I realize there are a number of purists who won't use short cuts, but this is a GAME
and not everyone has the time to ignore the real world for that long at one stretch!

Please consider a short cut option when loading the mission! Thank you.

Sailor Steve · 09-12-06, 08:50 PM

I agree that a short-cut is vital for those who want it, but not at the expense of those of us who really want to make the trip.

Having both options would be best.

09-13-06, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I agree that a short-cut is vital for those who want it, but not at the expense of those of us who really want to make the trip.

Having both options would be best.

Absolutely. Both would be best. These designers can do that I am sure with NO SWEAT.

They are capable people and it wouldn't take them long to add the shortcut option. And there is a practical consideration, too. After someone has clocked a lot of hours on a game, interest falls off. The shorter mission option should extend the life of the game for the player.

FW

09-13-06, 12:12 PM

Do you all remember in Silent Hunter (I) what happened when you had a good patrol? You got a citation, perhaps a medal, and a very naval voice read out the citation, beginning with "Attention to Orders!" I always liked that a lot. Made me feel good.

Also, on the other hand, if you had a lousy patrol, you got reamed out. "If you aren't more aggressive you'll be replaced by someone else who is!" I liked that too, sort of.

I really want to see this featured restored in a new US Pacific Sub campagin! Maybe
it could just be borrowed from the old game?

Thanks.

FW

Capt. D · 09-14-06, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Wagner

Do you all remember in Silent Hunter (I) what happened when you had a good patrol? You got a citation, perhaps a medal, and a very naval voice read out the citation, beginning with "Attention to Orders!" I always liked that a lot. Made me feel good.

Also, on the other hand, if you had a lousy patrol, you got reamed out. "If you aren't more aggressive you'll be replaced by someone else who is!" I liked that too, sort of.

I really want to see this featured restored in a new US Pacific Sub campagin! Maybe
it could just be borrowed from the old game?

Thanks.

FW

Welcome to the forum!

Excellent idea!

Totally forgot about that feature on SHI. This could be used in conjunction with other ideas - moral, shooting survivors in water and what would be done about it, etc.:hmm:

Somethimes the "old" is "rich" with ideas for the "new".

Happy Hunting

09-14-06, 01:41 PM

I have been rereading Clay Blair Jr's SILENT VICTORY. I suppose it is the bible of US submarine operations in WWII. It seems to cover every single patrol and takes a thousand pages to do it.

I hope the design team owns a copy of this book because it covers the operational challenges and difficulties that need to be included in a well-designed SHIV. For one thing, since the boats had Ultra messages to advise them of targets, I would think that would be an important include.

It is also a good guide to the torpedo problems and the dates of their solution.

But it also points out some things that wouldn't be good in a game. In particular, a lot of boats went out on patrol and never had a contact, or only a trawler,etc. I am reading now the part where the six boats that went into the Sea of Japan in the summer of '43 came away with very little.

On the other hand, boats sent to the Formosa-Luzon bottleneck had a target-rich environment as did the boats sent to Empire waters east of the home islands.

I have to think that the designers are well aware of these matters but sometimes a timely reminder may help.

Thanks

FW

Threadfin · 09-14-06, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz Wagner

But it also points out some things that wouldn't be good in a game. In particular, a lot of boats went out on patrol and never had a contact, or only a trawler,etc. I am reading now the part where the six boats that went into the Sea of Japan in the summer of '43 came away with very little.

I agree with most of your post, but I suppose I disagree with this quote. I think more in sim, than in game, terms. I do indeed hope there's a chance for a skunked patrol. I want to work for contacts, feel the excitement of making contact. And feel the disapointment if it slips past, knowing that may be my only chance. It's all too easy in SH3, way too many contacts. A zero patrol only makes a succesful patrol that much more rewarding. Sinking 70,000+ tons every patrol like in SH3 gets old after a while, no challenge.

I very much hope that SH4 has productive areas, and unproductive areas, and even further, an enemy that reacts to submarine sightings, so an area that may be thick with smoky marus, may dry up as soon as the first torpedo explodes or the sub is sighted, as the enemy re-routes their traffic to safer waters. I hope not to see every part of the theater just as productive as any other. I want to curse my Squadron commander for sending me to a bad area, or feel the satisfaction of finding myself right in the thick of it. Challenge me. Make me work for it. Only then will I have a sense of accomplishment.

In addition, I hope that the targets we find in SH4 are:

a) moving faster on the whole. Ships in SH3 go too slowly.
b) sailing a true zigzag course in some cases, not in others. Ships in SH3 do not zigzag, they weave.
c) reacting to the player being detected by pouring on the coal, and combing tracks, and radically changing course, even turning back the way they came, or turning to ram, all of which drastically complicates torpedo attack.

That said, the devs should indeed have Silent Victory, and I would be shocked if they didn't.

09-14-06, 05:42 PM

Quote:

I agree with most of your post, but I suppose I disagree with this quote. I think more in sim, than in game, terms. I do indeed hope there's a chance for a skunked patrol. I want to work for contacts, feel the excitement of making contact. And feel the disapointment if it slips past, knowing that may be my only chance. It's all too easy in SH3, way too many contacts. A zero patrol only makes a succesful patrol that much more rewarding. Sinking 70,000+ tons every patrol like in SH3 gets old after a while, no challenge.

You have persuaded me!

An occasional stinker will make the productive patrols that much nicer!
But not too hard, please!

And the zigzagging is an important desideratum, but it sounds "hard to do."

If your boat is based in Fremantel, you will earn every score!

A NEW POINT:
How hard would it be to give actual skipper-boat missions (eg Morton-Wahoo Sea of Japan Aug '43) and see whether we can do any better than the actual skipper did with the contacts that he had?

There is a romance to the history of these skippers and their boats that would
dramatically improve the enjoyment of the game. It would avoid the arcade
shooting gallery that can so easily happen with a war game! I guess this suggests
a different campaign design. But why not?

I hope these design folk are still checking this thread!!

Thanks.

FW

timetraveller · 09-21-06, 05:06 AM

Driveable ships. Driveable ships. Driveable ships.

Otherwise this game is just a one-sided shooting gallery. Don't get me wrong, I loved SH3, and wrote a bunch of tools for it, but in the end, this is what was missing for me.

We don't need a fancy 3D historically accurate bridge for every ship, just a way to direct them, or program some simple ship AI in a mission so we can take a convoy through an AI wolfpack. Oh yeah, and wolfpacks.

If SH4 is a clone of SH3 in this way, I may pass till it hits the cheap shelves.

TT

MothBalls · 09-21-06, 12:21 PM

I'd like to be able to replay and review missions from and observer point of view so I could see my mistakes and learn from them. Not everything in the entire mission, but just the area within the subs "zone of influence". Make it part of the final saved mission, you can't use it until the patrol is over.

================================================== ===================
A detailed captains log would be nice too. One that would record every important command given and what time it was given.

11DEC1941 0900 - Periscope depth
11DEC1941 0900 - Rig for silent running
11DEC1941 0905 - New course 270
11DEC1941 0930 - Fired T2 torpedo
11DEC1941 0934 - Torpedo impact - Imperial Cargo Ship
11DEC1941 0936 - Ship Sunk - Imperial Cargo ship - 9,875 tons
11DEC1941 0940 - Surface the submarine
11DEC1941 0943 - Sub damaged by Japanese air attack
================================================== ====================

Make the captain accountable and let him do what he wants. In SH3 you can only man deck/aaa guns in fair weather. If the Captain orders the guns manned, let him. If there is bad weather, increase the probability of losing that sailor.

wind 00 knots 00% chance of man overboard
wind 05 knots 02% chance of man overboard
wind 10 knots 30% chance of man overboard
wind 15 knots 70% chance of man overboard

Possibly include watch crews in this scenario, and allow the sub to be surfaced without a watch crew.

If someone does go overboard, allow the ability to rescue him. You have to stay surfaced within 500m of the point he went overboard and remain there for 1 hour to perform the rescue, possibly longer in bad weather.

If you do lose a sailor, you get penalized for it. Take away renown, etc. If you lose xX number of sailors over a career, your career ends. 15 sailors and your fired, or demoted, something like that.
================================================== ========================

At full realism, don't do anything automatically for the captain. For example, when you surface in SH3 it automatically switches from electric engines to diesel and moves the crew to the compartment, then puts a watch crew on deck.

Let the Captain give the orders, but make it easier than having to slide everyone around. Click switch to diesel engine, watch crew on deck, etc.

================================================== =======================

When an important decision has to be made, give the captain the option to:

1. Phone a friend
2. 50/50 eliminate one wrong decision
3. Poll the audience.

09-04-06, 09:19 AM	#273
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Guys / Girls, If this has been mentioned before, bear with me, I've been reading for hours. When in shallower waters, where you can set the boat on the bottom or run close to it, have it impact the ASW devices as it should. Also where it was known, when you zoom in on the map(s), to have the known depth gradiants there. If the area was uncharted at the time, be careful while sailing there. And let us not forget the tides, as it can effect how you move through shallower areas. Reefs, and crystal clear lagoons, with breakwater waves, to make the clandestine jobs more interesting, and some of the recon and ASR missions. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

09-08-06, 03:31 PM	#274
Nightmare Engineer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 210 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Accurate TDC I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet or not, but I’d like to see an accurate model of the TDC. The TDC equipped on the US Submarines was just more than the angle solver; it was also a position keeper that kept the solution up to date. That way after several observation and corrections (if necessary) if the final bearing matched that of the projected bearing on the TDC, you knew you had an accurate firing solution. More info on the TDC here I'd also like to see an accurate stadimeter with the split prism. You’d need to know the masthead height of your target, but then it’s just a mater of adjusting the superimposed image so that the second image waterline is set to the masthead of the actual image. I never could get accurate ranges with the line adjustment to masthead height in SH3. Last edited by Nightmare; 09-08-06 at 04:09 PM.

09-12-06, 08:38 PM	#276
Fritz Wagner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Shortcut to patrol grid When traveling from Pearl harbor to Bungo Suido, a lot of real time can go by, even with high time acceleration. It would really be helpful for those of us who want a campaign but don't always have (real) time for travel to the patrol area if we had a shortcut taking us to the edge of the assigned grid square. It has always annoyed me when operating SH3 and I am assigned to the horn of Africa or the Carribbean and I really haven't the (real) time to wait for the trip out there (or back). I realize there are a number of purists who won't use short cuts, but this is a GAME and not everyone has the time to ignore the real world for that long at one stretch! Please consider a short cut option when loading the mission! Thank you.

09-12-06, 08:50 PM	#277
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I agree that a short-cut is vital for those who want it, but not at the expense of those of us who really want to make the trip. Having both options would be best. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

09-13-06, 12:12 PM	#279
Fritz Wagner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Attention to Orders! Do you all remember in Silent Hunter (I) what happened when you had a good patrol? You got a citation, perhaps a medal, and a very naval voice read out the citation, beginning with "Attention to Orders!" I always liked that a lot. Made me feel good. Also, on the other hand, if you had a lousy patrol, you got reamed out. "If you aren't more aggressive you'll be replaced by someone else who is!" I liked that too, sort of. I really want to see this featured restored in a new US Pacific Sub campagin! Maybe it could just be borrowed from the old game? Thanks. FW

08-24-06, 07:58 PM	#271
-Pv- The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,434 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I was pleased with the interview and liked what I heard. I've waited years for this sim and it has the features I expected. I'll be one of the 1st in line. I also expect it will meet or excede SHIII sales based on US sales alone. I'm not a super-critical realist. I've just enjoyed sub sims for the last 20 years and the Pacific has always been my favorite. I want a chance at sinking those many many carriers and their escort fleets. To balance out the small problem of the US technology making hitting and evading easier as the war progresses, you also have to get smarter about finding fewer ships. There were carriers to sink right up to the end and US boats were still being sunk near the end. -Pv-

09-11-06, 08:36 PM	#275
MuscleBob.Buffpants Seaman Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 38 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	How about realistic damage - if your sub suffers a penetrating hit from a ships gun, it shouldn't be able to submerge without flooding. Maybe this will remove the tendancy some captains have of dueling on the surface against armed ships.

09-14-06, 01:41 PM	#281
Fritz Wagner Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Clay Blair Jr's SILENT VICTORY I have been rereading Clay Blair Jr's SILENT VICTORY. I suppose it is the bible of US submarine operations in WWII. It seems to cover every single patrol and takes a thousand pages to do it. I hope the design team owns a copy of this book because it covers the operational challenges and difficulties that need to be included in a well-designed SHIV. For one thing, since the boats had Ultra messages to advise them of targets, I would think that would be an important include. It is also a good guide to the torpedo problems and the dates of their solution. But it also points out some things that wouldn't be good in a game. In particular, a lot of boats went out on patrol and never had a contact, or only a trawler,etc. I am reading now the part where the six boats that went into the Sea of Japan in the summer of '43 came away with very little. On the other hand, boats sent to the Formosa-Luzon bottleneck had a target-rich environment as did the boats sent to Empire waters east of the home islands. I have to think that the designers are well aware of these matters but sometimes a timely reminder may help. Thanks FW

09-21-06, 05:06 AM	#284
timetraveller Beach Leaf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Atlantic Shipping Lanes Posts: 287 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Driveable ships. Driveable ships. Driveable ships. Otherwise this game is just a one-sided shooting gallery. Don't get me wrong, I loved SH3, and wrote a bunch of tools for it, but in the end, this is what was missing for me. We don't need a fancy 3D historically accurate bridge for every ship, just a way to direct them, or program some simple ship AI in a mission so we can take a convoy through an AI wolfpack. Oh yeah, and wolfpacks. If SH4 is a clone of SH3 in this way, I may pass till it hits the cheap shelves. TT

09-21-06, 12:21 PM	#285
MothBalls Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,012 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	My Wish List I'd like to be able to replay and review missions from and observer point of view so I could see my mistakes and learn from them. Not everything in the entire mission, but just the area within the subs "zone of influence". Make it part of the final saved mission, you can't use it until the patrol is over. ================================================== =================== A detailed captains log would be nice too. One that would record every important command given and what time it was given. 11DEC1941 0900 - Periscope depth 11DEC1941 0900 - Rig for silent running 11DEC1941 0905 - New course 270 11DEC1941 0930 - Fired T2 torpedo 11DEC1941 0934 - Torpedo impact - Imperial Cargo Ship 11DEC1941 0936 - Ship Sunk - Imperial Cargo ship - 9,875 tons 11DEC1941 0940 - Surface the submarine 11DEC1941 0943 - Sub damaged by Japanese air attack ================================================== ==================== Make the captain accountable and let him do what he wants. In SH3 you can only man deck/aaa guns in fair weather. If the Captain orders the guns manned, let him. If there is bad weather, increase the probability of losing that sailor. wind 00 knots 00% chance of man overboard wind 05 knots 02% chance of man overboard wind 10 knots 30% chance of man overboard wind 15 knots 70% chance of man overboard Possibly include watch crews in this scenario, and allow the sub to be surfaced without a watch crew. If someone does go overboard, allow the ability to rescue him. You have to stay surfaced within 500m of the point he went overboard and remain there for 1 hour to perform the rescue, possibly longer in bad weather. If you do lose a sailor, you get penalized for it. Take away renown, etc. If you lose xX number of sailors over a career, your career ends. 15 sailors and your fired, or demoted, something like that. ================================================== ======================== At full realism, don't do anything automatically for the captain. For example, when you surface in SH3 it automatically switches from electric engines to diesel and moves the crew to the compartment, then puts a watch crew on deck. Let the Captain give the orders, but make it easier than having to slide everyone around. Click switch to diesel engine, watch crew on deck, etc. ================================================== ======================= When an important decision has to be made, give the captain the option to: 1. Phone a friend 2. 50/50 eliminate one wrong decision 3. Poll the audience.