US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

The book explains other ways to earn "Citizenship" without doing Military service.

The concept is interesting and has merit. I could see the problems trying to get that invoked!

Kennedy's "Dont ask what your country can do for you, better ask what you can do for your country" comes to mind. He might have been about military in the main, but I dont know.
True is, however, that the ancient Greek word for "citizen" refers to a small band of armed people. But who was allowed to carry arms back then?
1. MEN. Females were prohibited from wearing arms.
2. FREE men. Slaves, servants, unfree men were not allowed to carry arms.
3. RICH free men. Because it was expected that the man carrying arms would be equipped by his family with weapons and armour, or would pay it by other personal treasuries - there were no public taxes raised in the cities, paying taxes was seen as submission to and cowardice before a tyrant. To this day, the Greeks have certain problems with their tax offices, tax collections and especially the cadastral registers. This aversion goes back to those ancient times. I too call taxes a regime of blackmailing protection money.
In ancient Greece, the defence of the city and the wars were to be paid by those rich families who also sent their male members as knights/warriors. They also had to pay the military efforts. In return they were consuming what the ordinary people - non-citizens, that are - produced in results of their daily works. Slaves, unfree, and women never were citizens! The ratio between citizens and non-citizens varied from city state to city state, mostly between 5% and 15% of the population were "citizens".
Interestingly, later in Europe's three medieval eras the ratio between feudal class/knights and peasants/farmers also was in this range, across Europe: 5-15% ruled, 85-95% had to obey and do the work on the fields and structures etc. Maybe this indicates a limit to how many farmers could supply how many non-farmers with food. But that is just my theory, and it ignores the complication that often only the medieval elites were allowed to chase and eat wild meat, whereas mostly for the peasants that was almost or a real crime.

"Citizens" are warriors. Thats how it looks, sorry. We give the term a noble value that in the way we interpret it it probably does not deserve. And does deserve - where the system as described worked good. But thats an old problem. A monarchy can work well if you have a good, competent king with a sense of duty, service and resonsibility. He is motivated to keep his place in order and keep things together, to have something that he can hand over to the next generation in his family (thats why socialism always leads to decline - last but not least because there is claimed to be no property and so no sense of responsibility in people emerges). But what if you have a bad guy as king, a ruthless criminal dirtbag? See, here the idea of monarchy starts to not sound that good anymore, doesn't it. And it must not even be a villain. An incompetent idiot as king can do as much if not more damage. With the best of intentions.

In summary, I am all for where you demand rights, you also have to accept duties. Where you take something from the common good, you have to give back to the common good. I do not accept claims for getting free rides, and only voluntarily having to give something back. I do not accept this being called a human right. If you take something, you have to give something.

[Jeff-Groves]

Given just your take on an Old and out dated system? Explain to me why We, in the USA, should grant Citizenship to those that broke every Law We have, to come into this Country and get the same rights, as those of us who have been here from birth and served and DIED, in some (Many) cases?
One might say because the USA offers Hope to the down trodden. I call BS on that! They come because of the free handouts the Powers that be GAVE away to them better then We, as Citizens of this Nation, get.

All the while sending BILLIONS to other Countries as We suffer!

[Ostfriese]

The vast majority of people who say "my country first" actually mean "me first", and the argument "I did XY" quite often only is the opening line for a selfish demand, an expression of entitlement.



If you don't want stupid people to vote, you don't take away their vote. You educate them to combat their stupidity.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Given just your take on an Old and out dated system? Explain to me why We, in the USA, should grant Citizenship to those that broke every Law We have, to come into this Country and get the same rights, as those of us who have been here from birth and served and DIED, in some (Many) cases?

...??? Why would I...?
I did not judge anything, just straighten a few points many people do not reflect on. What "democracy" originally is, and what "citizen" originally meant.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

The vast majority of people who say "my country first" actually mean "me first", and the argument "I did XY" quite often only is the opening line for a selfish demand, an expression of entitlement.

Very simplistic.

[Oubaas]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

The vast majority of people who say "my country first" actually mean "me first", and the argument "I did XY" quite often only is the opening line for a selfish demand, an expression of entitlement.

Spoken like a true civilian. I'm guessing that you've never worn a military uniform, and have never gone in harm's way on behalf of your country.

I'd love to hear your opinion about this after Trump withdraws the US from NATO and the Russian Federation decides they're tired of western Europe pestering them.

[Jimbuna]

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Very simplistic.

People are simplistic.

[mapuc]

A few thing about the election

1. I was right
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...ostcount=10366

2. During the night and the days after our politicians was analyzing up and down - forward and backward - inside and out, because they couldn't understand why Trump won and with so much

Markus

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

amen

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Democrats have floated is that the Republicans were able to get their message out through Podcasts and other neutral media outlets.


.

Democrats own the media. CNN, MSNBC, CBS, MSN. Republicans have FOX. I'm not sure how they believe their attack dogs known as the media did not get their message out.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Given just your take on an Old and out dated system? Explain to me why We, in the USA, should grant Citizenship to those that broke every Law We have, to come into this Country and get the same rights, as those of us who have been here from birth and served and DIED, in some (Many) cases?
One might say because the USA offers Hope to the down trodden. I call BS on that! They come because of the free handouts the Powers that be GAVE away to them better then We, as Citizens of this Nation, get.

All the while sending BILLIONS to other Countries as We suffer!

I agree, Jeff.

I found this article and thought it may be of interest. In my opinion, this explains one very good reason why the Democrats suffered a resounding loss across the board.

A federal judge on Thursday struck down the Biden administration’s “parole in place” policy that gave legal status to certain undocumented individuals who are married to US citizens. Ironically, It was a trump appointed Supreme Court Justice that has said Biden exceeded his Authority.

Quote: In his Thursday ruling on the merits of their case, Barker, appointed by President-elect Donald Trump during his first term, said that Congress had not given the executive branch the authority to implement such a policy. He wrote that “history and purpose confirm that defendants’ view” of the relevant immigration law “stretches legal interpretation past its breaking point.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fe...on/ar-AA1tHQYN

Essentially, Biden wanted to bring in more Immigrants to change the demographics for the Democratic party and it has backfired badly. This doesn't mean the Democrats won't continue to try.

I have heard one stupid argument after another as to why the Democrats lost the Presidential Election and other races and lost badly. Not only did the Democrats lose the Presidency but also lost seats in the Senate and House. This essentially will give President Elect Trump a " blank check " in dealing with the Issues our Country faces, Like Illegal and undocumented Migrants or Invaders. I think the dangers these Invaders pose merits dealing with them with extreme prejudice if they resist deportation or place our Law enforcement officers in danger.

The Democrats lost because they number a few thousand in Washington and sought to impose their weird and bizarre ideas of normal on millions of us, the Electorate. We won't tolerate anyone telling us what to think or how. True to form, the Democrats are blaming everyone except themselves. One stupid Idea the Democrats have floated is that the Republicans were able to get their message out through Podcasts and other neutral media outlets.

The Democrats said they never got their message out. I strongly disagree that their warped message and Ideas got out just fine. We heard you loud and clear. Simply put, the American people weren't buying their warped Ideas or the " message " they were trying to convey. They, the Democratic party wants to move migrants ( I call them Invaders ) greater than the population of Ohio and other states into the U,S and make American Citizens financially responsible for them whether they like it or not.

If you asked the average Citizen in the U.S, they would gladly support and without question help our own Veterans, many of whom suffer from PTSD and other health related Issues associated with their Military service. Our own people have suffered badly under this current regime with regards to having to work 2 and 3 jobs to make ends meet with out of control Inflation

We learned long ago in School through Civics classes and the like that our elected officials are in Washington to represent us and our values and what we want as a Country and Society. When Officials ignore that and pursue their own warped agenda, they are removed. It's really as simple as that. Listening to the Democrats try to explain their humiliating loss is very much like watching a dog chase it's own tail. The Democrats are just too stupid to figure it out.

With the dangers that the Democratic Party has exposed American citizens to, I strongly believe the Democratic party should be outlawed and their ranking members put on trial for Treason against their fellow Citizens. I know this won't happen but firmly believe the actions of the Democrats rise to this level of offense.

My suggestion to the Democratic Institutions, Get over your loss.

Once again, I'm very proud of our Citizens for not only Voting but also for thinking things through. I know the hard hit states like Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and others are happy you did as well. The rest of the world seems to feel as we do as well.


* I agree Chris. It used to be the truth is the truth but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore *

[Catfish]

For what I saw it were the latinos who helped Trump win.
"Latinos are Republican. They just don't know it yet."
(Ronald Reagan)
Now they know.

[AVGWarhawk]

The pandering , BS, fakery, being told how to vote and lies....people are tired of it. Trump won the popular vote. That is significant.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The pandering , BS, fakery, being told how to vote and lies....people are tired of it. Trump won the popular vote. That is significant.

That's not just significant. That says it all.