technique to shadow a convoy

[commandosolo2009]

Hey guys I wonder what your technique is for shadowing a 60K Gross Registered Tonne heavily defended convoy? And is it correct to shadow them so that when looking at the periscope at night the moonlight would be behind them and not behind me? Or is it the other way around?
Thanks in advance
CS2K9

[Aktungbby]

otherwise known as "Ramage's rampage"

CITATION
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as commanding officer of the U.S.S. Parche in a predawn attack on a Japanese convoy, 31 July 1944. Boldly penetrating the screen of a heavily escorted convoy, Comdr. Ramage launched a perilous surface attack by delivering a crippling stern shot into a freighter and quickly following up with a series of bow and stern torpedoes to sink the leading tanker and damage the second one. Exposed by the light of bursting flares and bravely defiant of terrific shellfire passing close overhead, he struck again, sinking a transport by two forward reloads. In the mounting fury of fire from the damaged and sinking tanker, he calmly ordered his men below, remaining on the bridge to fight it out with an enemy now disorganized and confused. Swift to act as a fast transport closed in to ram, Comdr. Ramage daringly swung the stern of the speeding Parche as she crossed the bow of the onrushing ship, clearing by less than 50 feet but placing his submarine in a deadly crossfire from escorts on all sides and with the transport dead ahead. Undaunted, he sent three smashing "down the throat" bow shots to stop the target, then scored a killing hit as a climax to 46 minutes of violent action with the Parche and her valiant fighting company retiring victorious and unscathed.

[Jonas Grumby]

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

Hey guys I wonder what your technique is for shadowing a 60K Gross Registered Tonne heavily defended convoy? And is it correct to shadow them so that when looking at the periscope at night the moonlight would be behind them and not behind me? Or is it the other way around?
Thanks in advance
CS2K9

I stay 5k away from the escorts and work my way to the front of the convoy all while plotting their course. It can be closer under certain circumstances, however, with a 5k separation you can't go wrong. Once I am far enough ahead on the convoy I turn in on their track and dive according to the situation at hand. It could be a long surface run or a short one, depending on how I maneuvered into this position.
You never want to be in the "moonstreak". You want the target vessels to be in there. In other words, you always want the convoy between you and the moon. If you have the moon at your back you are "silhouetted" and this is not good.

[commandosolo2009]

5000 meters away is cutting it close in ideal weather. I am talking about 10,000 meters away. Is that safe enough? Usually I plot the first of the ticks on the ships to stay outside a 10K bubble/sphere then race ahead and dive when the target gets between the first and second ticks (10 and 20 miliradians), to continue my approach submerged. I point the bow at 45 degrees towards the exit point (their would-be AOB>90). This helps me with the escort evasion if my periscope is spotted.

Originally Posted by Jonas Grumby

I stay 5k away from the escorts and work my way to the front of the convoy all while plotting their course. It can be closer under certain circumstances, however, with a 5k separation you can't go wrong. Once I am far enough ahead on the convoy I turn in on their track and dive according to the situation at hand. It could be a long surface run or a short one, depending on how I maneuvered into this position.
You never want to be in the "moonstreak". You want the target vessels to be in there. In other words, you always want the convoy between you and the moon. If you have the moon at your back you are "silhouetted" and this is not good.

[Flubbo]

Originally Posted by commandosolo2009

Hey guys I wonder what your technique is for shadowing a 60K Gross Registered Tonne heavily defended convoy? And is it correct to shadow them so that when looking at the periscope at night the moonlight would be behind them and not behind me? Or is it the other way around?
Thanks in advance
CS2K9

During clear night, with moon you can definitely be 2000m away, I think when I ran tests I were detected at 1800m. I tried moon behind, moon in front and half and half, made no difference, detection occurred at 1800m.
The angle in which they see you at makes a difference, if they see your front or rear (which leaves a smaller siluett) compared to seeing you from directly broadside that changes detection range by 500m.
Fog and wind settings will also affect detection ranges but I have no numbers for those.

There is many people sharing their whishes of how they want the game to be instead of actually sharing the current versions mechanics. Most likely people makes a incorrect assumption that the game is a perfect simulation of reality and thus shares how it would logically would work IRL instead of actually testing the game mechanics and its limitations, Make sure to test all claims people make about the game so you do not fall for unintended missinformation. Test even my claims.

More myths being spread is that decks awash have an effect on detection... it does not in wolfpack nor does your OP or AP being fully extended. I ran tests on this and I also tested if there was difference between warship detection range and merchant. there was none, nor will it matter if you are behind them or in front. OP and AP will tho have an effect on detection when submerged.

The amount of warships will not change their detection range so no matter if you stalking a convoy with 1 warship or 9 each individual ship will have the same detection range. Of course with less amount of warships there will be gaps in their screen allowing you to get closer to merchants than if there was a warship between you and it.

Make sure to test these statements to verify the integrity of my claims.

I hope this answers your questions.

Happy stalking

[Fidd]

Does the periscope detection range (with full extension) alter at short-ranges when submerged? Or with the type of periscope raised? Reason I ask is that there's been a fairly strong consensus thus far that the OP at very short range - under 300m or thereabouts - may get you detected.. or is your test simply that the degree of periscope extension does not affect the basic detection range when surfaced?

Also, we've all been in the situation where one is out of detection-range for an unalerted convoy, someone else gets spotted and you get caught in the searchlights with your proverbial knickers around your ankles! That suggests there's two detection ranges, one unalerted, and one alerted. I'd be interested to know if the periscope extension causes the detection range not to change in both cases?

Like you I'm interested to know how these ranges (may) change with behaviours, although perhaps a little mystery and "mythology" is not a bad thing!

Incidentally, as a rough guide, if you set say 25% fog, I've been working on the assumption - quite untested mind you - that you then multiply the normal detection 1800m range by (100%-25%) therefore .75 giving 1350m. This would suggest that by far the greatest benefit from fog would be in daylight?

[Flubbo]

Originally Posted by Fidd

Does the periscope detection range (with full extension) alter at short-ranges when submerged? Or with the type of periscope raised? Reason I ask is that there's been a fairly strong consensus thus far that the OP at very short range - under 300m or thereabouts - may get you detected.. or is your test simply that the degree of periscope extension does not affect the basic detection range when surfaced?

The test I conducted were only concerning surface detection.
But from experience the OP and AP can be detected when submerged but I noticed it is dependent on their height. The AP can adjust its height on its own while the OP requires height to be manipulated via adjusting the uboats depth. Closest I have been so far and not been detected with OP out was 200m at depth 12.5m, calm sea, night. After that I did not have the balls to risk it up because of we were close to colliding with it.

Originally Posted by Fidd

Also, we've all been in the situation where one is out of detection-range for an unalerted convoy, someone else gets spotted and you get caught in the searchlights with your proverbial knickers around your ankles! That suggests there's two detection ranges, one unalerted, and one alerted. I'd be interested to know if the periscope extension causes the detection range not to change in both cases?

This i do not know, there could be an extension of detection range when alerted but I have while on a boat of another captain been very close to ~2km and not been detected while they had searchlights out. I can not for sure say as it was not in the most scientific way I was taking note of the situation. But one thing I am much more certain about is that if you are caught in the searchlight beam the detection range is directionally increased, so I seen captains reamining undetected fairly close and then get the searchlight flashed over them and then they been detected.

Originally Posted by Fidd

Like you I'm interested to know how these ranges (may) change with behaviours, although perhaps a little mystery and "mythology" is not a bad thing!

There is an argument to be made that having access to internet and players sharing experiences that other players seeing the info can "spoil" their experience. however in cases of players interested in asking of the facts I think its better to share facts and declare when something you are stating is not. Sometimes I like to refrain from answering or I answer with more ambiguity if I feel the answer would not benefit the inquirer would it be super clear. but Being ambiguous and sharing myths is different in my opinion.

When people ask me how big the bilge is. I do not like to answer with a number to leave some suspense. I say that you will run out of compressed air and battery before you will have to worry about your bilge in wolfpack. I find such answer can offer a better result then lying and claiming you die bilge level 10 os stating its exact volume when you die.

Originally Posted by Fidd

Incidentally, as a rough guide, if you set say 25% fog, I've been working on the assumption - quite untested mind you - that you then multiply the normal detection 1800m range by (100%-25%) therefore .75 giving 1350m. This would suggest that by far the greatest benefit from fog would be in daylight?

Colonel Frosts Wednesday and Thursday games many times will be made with various levels of fog, so many captain in those games have figured out more so how close they can get at various levels of fog. I am a bit late to that party so I have no data myself on it more than I know fog will reduce detection range but not by how much.

[Fidd]

Thanks for taking the time to craft a very interesting reply. Waxing philosophical for a moment, my instinct is that the more the game moves towards non-calculable, non repetitive detection "ranges" both visual, ASDIC, the better. What I call "muddy" or "indeterminate" detection ranges, where so many factors are at play that one can play it safe by being well out of detection range, but this business of closing to 1805m and skating outside "detection range" on the bleeding edge of a known detection value is no longer completely safe. So maybe the AI escorts on random games get a couple of "sharp-eyed" AI sailors on watch who on one or two escorts can "see" uboats a bit further out, Anything to get away from "stay at 1805m and your safe, or get to 185m and you cant be discovered etc.

It should, imho, be a judgement as to how close one may safely close, not an arithmetical exercise. Giving different classes of escort slightly different detection ranges, and different ships within those classes ditto, would help make it a more worrisome event...

What I'm driving at, is instead of having a range outside of which one is safe, and within which one is detected, it may be better gameplay resultant from having an intermediate and somewhat variable range band between the two, where one might be detected the longer you persist in it, the greater the viewable extent of the u-boat, if you're making a lot of smoke from the diesels and so forth....