Deserters: We Won't Go To Iraq

scandium · 08-08-06, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

"waging an illegal war of aggression" (this was also one of the charges levelled at Grand Admiral Doenitz, and although I don't recall if he was convicted on this charge

According Dan Gallery he was charged with:

1. Conspiring to wage aggressive war
2. Waging aggressive war
3. Violation of the laws of war at sea

He was acquitted of the first charge but convicted of the other two. No mention of an waging an "illegal" aggressive war.

Fine, "waging aggressive war" then, I had not looked up the specifics but was only relying on the vaguely remembered memoirs that I'd read several months ago.

August · 08-08-06, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Fine, "waging aggressive war" then, I had not looked up the specifics but was only relying on the vaguely remembered memoirs that I'd read several months ago.

Relax, i'm not disagreeing with you as seems to be our forum habit, i just think Doenitz was unjustly railroaded.

"Waging an aggressive war" is a completely asinine charge to make against a military man. Of COURSE he waged an aggressive war. Isn't that what soldiers and sailors are supposed to do for their country?

So was "Violating the laws of war at sea" another stupid charge to make, especially when each and every one of the Allied countries doing the proscecuting broke the same exact laws he was accused of, except our people got medals for it while he got 10 years in Spandau prison.

Skybird · 08-09-06, 04:37 AM

Politics make and decide on the reasons for war, not the military. Thus it is not the military's or individual soldier's job to assess by his own personal standard if a war is just or not. His conscience and a possible rejection of obeying "illegal orders" only comes into play if the orders are in violation to the army's own code of conduct and behavior, much of that is written down in some sort of military legal code.

So, a soldier saying he does not go to war because he sees that war not fitting his personal bill, has no cause to defend. Soldiers do not decide the reasons to go to war, it is the politician's responsebility. If you want to complain about a war, blame politicians, not the military leaders (who in case of Iraq 2003 are said to have been extremely cautious to favour that war, because as professionals in military issues, different to Bush and Rumsfeld they saw many of the problems in advance, btw.). soldiers accept commands by politicians, that way it is played and not any differently. That's why it makes me sick to see politicians taking the responsebility that comes with that easy, and triggering adventures like Iraq so easily. Some politicians seem to think the army is just their personal servant.

fredbass · 08-09-06, 07:03 AM

I haven't read the previous posts, but...

It's ironic that just about any soldier that you ask would never consider deserting their friends in the field. NEVER

I certainly hope we still shoot deserters. I think that is still the best deterrent.

08-09-06, 04:37 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,698 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Politics make and decide on the reasons for war, not the military. Thus it is not the military's or individual soldier's job to assess by his own personal standard if a war is just or not. His conscience and a possible rejection of obeying "illegal orders" only comes into play if the orders are in violation to the army's own code of conduct and behavior, much of that is written down in some sort of military legal code. So, a soldier saying he does not go to war because he sees that war not fitting his personal bill, has no cause to defend. Soldiers do not decide the reasons to go to war, it is the politician's responsebility. If you want to complain about a war, blame politicians, not the military leaders (who in case of Iraq 2003 are said to have been extremely cautious to favour that war, because as professionals in military issues, different to Bush and Rumsfeld they saw many of the problems in advance, btw.). soldiers accept commands by politicians, that way it is played and not any differently. That's why it makes me sick to see politicians taking the responsebility that comes with that easy, and triggering adventures like Iraq so easily. Some politicians seem to think the army is just their personal servant. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 08-09-06 at 04:41 AM.

08-09-06, 07:03 AM	#4
fredbass Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New Port Richey, Fl, USA Posts: 1,066 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I haven't read the previous posts, but... It's ironic that just about any soldier that you ask would never consider deserting their friends in the field. NEVER I certainly hope we still shoot deserters. I think that is still the best deterrent.