A few new ideas

Fidd · 05-15-24, 06:29 PM

154. Double-ranked escorts

As the war progressed, circa 1942 onwards, the availability of corvettes. sloops and destroyers improved to the point where escorts could be placed in two concentric circles around the convoy. The inner one consisted of corvettes, and the outer one usually of destroyers and sloops (Tribals and Bitterns). The latter were preferentially sent out to attack located U-boats, either reported positions from aircraft, HFDF bearings or visually seen, or detected by radar. These ships would range out to about 25nm (circa 50 or so km), because they could recover to the convoy at a good speed.

During the day, the function of the outer screen was to frustrate the efforts of U-boats to accelerate past the convoy at a range where they could remain - just about - in visual range of the convoy, and so help prevent their being able to overtake and prosecute a night time attack later.

During the night, dependant on the ranges from the convoy, a U-boat would have to penetrate at least the outer screen, and possibly also the inner screen, in order to have a reasonable prospect of hitting targets. That suggests to me that the inner screen of corvettes was about 1200m distant from the nearest merchant, and the outer screen was circa 3.5km to 5km distant. (A 5km shot would be considered a pretty long low percentage shot at the time.) It was the advent of these double screens that impelled the development of the Lut I and Lut II torpedoes (for which we will need changes to our current TDC) and the acoustic "zaukoenig" (?) types. The latter were swiftly rendered useless to attack destroyers by the use of "Foxer", (essentially a towed clapper that attracted the acoustic torpedo) although I can imagine the latter were not popular with hydrophone operators!

As we move to the type VIIC/41, and from 1941 into later years, it is I think worthwhile considering having some, or most, or all, convoys protected by an inner and outer escort screen. This is I think crucial to being able to extend the difficulty level of play, and variety of game experience and outcome, for experienced players, so that over-repetition and burnout is avoided. Player retention being very nearly as important as acquiring new players?

Fidd · 05-17-24, 09:13 AM

155. 3 axis movement and wave/swell action.

I am not particularly nautically minded, so feel free to differ, but it seems to me that whilst we have roll and yaw about the longitudinal and normal (vertical) vertices, we do not have any noticeable pitch for either wave action, or that of a swell.

This is greatly needed, as they confer the ability to do all sorts of things:

It makes maintaining periscope depth more problematic, as any pitch of the boat inclines or depresses the thrust-line of the prop, making depth keeping more dynamically unstable. The action of a swell is less to cause a pitch-change of the boat, but is going to cause the boat to rise and fall relative to the horizon. This would make ranging more difficult.

The ability to have major pitch changes would allow for more dynamic instability of the boat, if, for example, the bow is lifted relative to the stern by a DC going off under it. Sliding loose objects, objects falling out of lockers would be a nice touch here?

Some means of steadying the avatar to some degree would be helpful, especially in the engine room, where the ability to brace oneself to tune a flame would be most welcome!

If vertical control of a u-boat is degraded or lost - perhaps by an unequal distribution of weight, of DC attacks, then the ability of the u-boat to take on a steep pitch change could lead to the need for large changes of trim, of power, of 'planes to arrest an unwanted ascent of decent? It raises the spectre of completely losing control, and having difficulty regaining it before crush depth, or inadvertently surfacing!

There's a lot of atmospheric external sound that could be added, from the "slap" of the hydroplanes hitting the water if the boat pitches down onto the back of a wave, the creak of the u-boat's structure and so forth, in rough weather. Bots and players could be caused to sway and move in concert with the wave/swell action?

3 axis movement does have draw-backs, for example it may cause sea-sickness, seeing one movement but experiencing no movement, so probably best to make this a lobby, or a personal setting??

In sum though, I think there's a great deal of positives in helping to graduate the game experience from simple to really hard, which is needed to help prevent burnout and with player retention.

Fidd · 06-05-24, 09:56 PM

156. Audible pings not necessarily being detections.

Asdic pings hitting a u-boat, (as heard from within) have been described as akin to "gravel hitting the hull". I take this to mean that rather than hearing a clear-ping and echo, as an asdic operator would hear, the sound was "muddled" and prolonged slightly. I would like to see a transition from this sound becoming increasingly clear and distinct the closer the asdic-equipped escort got to the u-boat. The point of this is to remove the certainty of precisely when a u-boat is detected on asdic. Instead, perhaps, if the hydrophone operator on the u-boat is listening to that escort, he will hear the acceleration and have a short interval to report this before splashes (7-20 seconds?). As the escort comes overhead, it's props should be audible within the u-boat, but, "splashes" would only be audible on the hydrophones.

These changes would mean the hydrophone use on the u-boat would become more important in terms of the timing of going full ahead to escape being hit by DC's, rather than it simply being a case of anyone on the boat hearing "pings on the hull" and therefore knowing when to take measures to escape a DC attack. As a another wrinkle, the ability to hear "splashes" on the hydrophone in the first place could be made conditional on the e-motor being set to silent running?

05-15-24, 06:29 PM	#1
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 439 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	154. Double-ranked escorts As the war progressed, circa 1942 onwards, the availability of corvettes. sloops and destroyers improved to the point where escorts could be placed in two concentric circles around the convoy. The inner one consisted of corvettes, and the outer one usually of destroyers and sloops (Tribals and Bitterns). The latter were preferentially sent out to attack located U-boats, either reported positions from aircraft, HFDF bearings or visually seen, or detected by radar. These ships would range out to about 25nm (circa 50 or so km), because they could recover to the convoy at a good speed. During the day, the function of the outer screen was to frustrate the efforts of U-boats to accelerate past the convoy at a range where they could remain - just about - in visual range of the convoy, and so help prevent their being able to overtake and prosecute a night time attack later. During the night, dependant on the ranges from the convoy, a U-boat would have to penetrate at least the outer screen, and possibly also the inner screen, in order to have a reasonable prospect of hitting targets. That suggests to me that the inner screen of corvettes was about 1200m distant from the nearest merchant, and the outer screen was circa 3.5km to 5km distant. (A 5km shot would be considered a pretty long low percentage shot at the time.) It was the advent of these double screens that impelled the development of the Lut I and Lut II torpedoes (for which we will need changes to our current TDC) and the acoustic "zaukoenig" (?) types. The latter were swiftly rendered useless to attack destroyers by the use of "Foxer", (essentially a towed clapper that attracted the acoustic torpedo) although I can imagine the latter were not popular with hydrophone operators! As we move to the type VIIC/41, and from 1941 into later years, it is I think worthwhile considering having some, or most, or all, convoys protected by an inner and outer escort screen. This is I think crucial to being able to extend the difficulty level of play, and variety of game experience and outcome, for experienced players, so that over-repetition and burnout is avoided. Player retention being very nearly as important as acquiring new players?

05-17-24, 09:13 AM	#2
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 439 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	155. 3 axis movement and wave/swell action. I am not particularly nautically minded, so feel free to differ, but it seems to me that whilst we have roll and yaw about the longitudinal and normal (vertical) vertices, we do not have any noticeable pitch for either wave action, or that of a swell. This is greatly needed, as they confer the ability to do all sorts of things: It makes maintaining periscope depth more problematic, as any pitch of the boat inclines or depresses the thrust-line of the prop, making depth keeping more dynamically unstable. The action of a swell is less to cause a pitch-change of the boat, but is going to cause the boat to rise and fall relative to the horizon. This would make ranging more difficult. The ability to have major pitch changes would allow for more dynamic instability of the boat, if, for example, the bow is lifted relative to the stern by a DC going off under it. Sliding loose objects, objects falling out of lockers would be a nice touch here? Some means of steadying the avatar to some degree would be helpful, especially in the engine room, where the ability to brace oneself to tune a flame would be most welcome! If vertical control of a u-boat is degraded or lost - perhaps by an unequal distribution of weight, of DC attacks, then the ability of the u-boat to take on a steep pitch change could lead to the need for large changes of trim, of power, of 'planes to arrest an unwanted ascent of decent? It raises the spectre of completely losing control, and having difficulty regaining it before crush depth, or inadvertently surfacing! There's a lot of atmospheric external sound that could be added, from the "slap" of the hydroplanes hitting the water if the boat pitches down onto the back of a wave, the creak of the u-boat's structure and so forth, in rough weather. Bots and players could be caused to sway and move in concert with the wave/swell action? 3 axis movement does have draw-backs, for example it may cause sea-sickness, seeing one movement but experiencing no movement, so probably best to make this a lobby, or a personal setting?? In sum though, I think there's a great deal of positives in helping to graduate the game experience from simple to really hard, which is needed to help prevent burnout and with player retention.

06-05-24, 09:56 PM	#3
Fidd XO Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 439 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	156. Audible pings not necessarily being detections. Asdic pings hitting a u-boat, (as heard from within) have been described as akin to "gravel hitting the hull". I take this to mean that rather than hearing a clear-ping and echo, as an asdic operator would hear, the sound was "muddled" and prolonged slightly. I would like to see a transition from this sound becoming increasingly clear and distinct the closer the asdic-equipped escort got to the u-boat. The point of this is to remove the certainty of precisely when a u-boat is detected on asdic. Instead, perhaps, if the hydrophone operator on the u-boat is listening to that escort, he will hear the acceleration and have a short interval to report this before splashes (7-20 seconds?). As the escort comes overhead, it's props should be audible within the u-boat, but, "splashes" would only be audible on the hydrophones. These changes would mean the hydrophone use on the u-boat would become more important in terms of the timing of going full ahead to escape being hit by DC's, rather than it simply being a case of anyone on the boat hearing "pings on the hull" and therefore knowing when to take measures to escape a DC attack. As a another wrinkle, the ability to hear "splashes" on the hydrophone in the first place could be made conditional on the e-motor being set to silent running?