Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[Skybird]

[FAZ] Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers may have been captured by advancing Russian troops during the retreat from the eastern Ukrainian city of Avdiivka, reports the New York Times, citing "senior Western officials and soldiers fighting for Ukraine".


Estimates vary, but two soldiers with "knowledge of the Ukrainian retreat" estimate that between 850 and 1,000 soldiers have been captured or are missing.


American military officials had not originally assumed that the withdrawal from Avdiivka was a serious strategic setback for Ukraine. However, the loss of hundreds of soldiers could change this due to the already dwindling morale within the Ukrainian troops.

[mapuc]

Markus

[Skybird]

I do not watch talkshows, never, and have not seen this one either, but the summary mentions some input by a correspondent, Katrin Eigendorf, who is among the very few German correspondents I still care to listen to when they are in TV news. The contrast between her realistic remarks and the home-grown opportunistic "optimism" of the guests in the studio who try to find evasive actions allowing them to still reject reality taking place, is revealing.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/...en&_x_tr_hl=de

Russia is on the road to winning this, and Ukraine's situation by now is utmost desperate: they are loosing. That simple it is. And if America and Europe do not get their acts together PRONTO and manage to get ahead of the limitations of current production limits for ammo and so forth, then it will be over this year. Irreversibly.Thats the grim essence of the current situation. Delivering 50 or 100 Taurus or not, will not make a difference. That is this naive belief in miracle weapons. It would take dozens of Taurus being fired in dozens per target, week for week, to make a difference. Hundreds and hundreds of Taurus.

Personally I am convinced by now that there is an unspoken deal betwee Russia and the West, that is that the West just acts "as if" it were serious, and Russia tolerates that as long as a really decisive treshhold level is not exceeded and its final victory is not seriously questioned. That way both sides aleady have agreed on ensuring a Russian victory at the end. That is the only conclusion that logically makes sense to me when assessing how the Western nations treat the war the past two years. And still refuse to push their production to the needed wartime standards, like Russia has done in full embrace of war.

And it implies that Ukraine was to be betrayed from beginning on. Which I already predicted to happen two years ago, so while I am still outraged I am not really surprised.

What already is more interesting for me to think about is to imagine what we will be in in 4-10 years. I see nothing that gives me encouragement.

[mapuc]

All those fine words from our leaders before and during the time of the invasion 2022. Worth absolutely nothing when it comes help them when needed most.

It sadden me that Russia gets away with their aggressions against an innocent country, who was in no way a threat to Russia.

As I see it now, Ukraine have some option left.
1. admit they are about to lose the war and start negotiation with Russia, where Ukraine gives these 4 oblast to Russia for the price of peace.
2. Hope for a miracle and continue fight the Russians
3. The west understand the huge price for Ukraine and the west if Russia win the war.

Third
I'm convinced that Putin will, after his election win, declare Ukraine war and thereby open op for million of reserves.

Markus

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I do not watch talkshows, never, and have not seen this one either, but the summary mentions some input by a correspondent, Katrin Eigendorf, who is among the very few German correspondents I still care to listen to when they are in TV news. The contrast between her realistic remarks and the home-grown opportunistic "optimism" of the guests in the studio who try to find evasive actions allowing them to still reject reality taking place, is revealing.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/...en&_x_tr_hl=de

Russia is on the road to winning this, and Ukraine's situation by now is utmost desperate: they are loosing. That simple it is. And if America and Europe do not get their acts together PRONTO and manage to get ahead of the limitations of current production limits for ammo and so forth, then it will be over this year. Irreversibly.Thats the grim essence of the current situation. Delivering 50 or 100 Taurus or not, will not make a difference. That is this naive belief in miracle weapons. It would take dozens of Taurus being fired in dozens per target, week for week, to make a difference. Hundreds and hundreds of Taurus.

Personally I am convinced by now that there is an unspoken deal betwee Russia and the West, that is that the West just acts "as if" it were serious, and Russia tolerates that as long as a really decisive treshhold level is not exceeded and its final victory is not seriously questioned. That way both sides aleady have agreed on ensuring a Russian victory at the end. That is the only conclusion that logically makes sense to me when assessing how the Western nations treat the war the past two years. And still refuse to push their production to the needed wartime standards, like Russia has done in full embrace of war.

And it implies that Ukraine was to be betrayed from beginning on. Which I already predicted to happen two years ago, so while I am still outraged I am not really surprised.

What already is more interesting for me to think about is to imagine what we will be in in 4-10 years. I see nothing that gives me encouragement.

The West never gave Ukraine what it needed to fight the war, weapons that could actually end the war, long range platforms that could strike into Russia along with all the other battlefield stuff. I think it was just giving enough to put Russia through the meat grinder while spending billions to enrich defense contractors and line the pockets of a mass of corrupt people. Russia, China and friends are playing the long game for world domination while the West is imploding their nations with a mass of stupid progressive policies that pander to global corporatism. Another decade I imagine most of Europe will be bowing to Mecca and the US will become a Spanish speaking nation. Multiculturalism will finally implode the melting pot of the West.

[Dargo]

Iran sends Russia hundreds of ballistic missiles

Iran has provided Russia with a large number of powerful surface-to-surface ballistic missiles, six sources told Reuters, deepening the military cooperation between the two U.S.-sanctioned countries.
Iran's provision of around 400 missiles includes many from the Fateh-110 family of short-range ballistic weapons, such as the Zolfaghar, three Iranian sources said. This road-mobile missile is capable of striking targets at a distance of between 300 and 700 km (186 and 435 miles), experts say... https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-s...ay-2024-02-21/

In the meantime, the West sends... none



The irony that Ukraine is fighting the enemies of the West, Russia, Iran, China and North Korea but without the help of the West.

Figures

Parts Made by U.S. Companies Are Used To Build Russian Cruise Missiles

North Korean missiles used by Russia against Ukraine contain US, European components

A North Korean ballistic missile fired into Ukraine by the Russian military last month contained hundreds of components produced by companies in the U.S. and Europe, the Conflict Armament Research (CAR) organization announced in its February report. CAR, an organization based in the U.K., studied missile remnants recovered from a Russian attack on the city of Kharkiv back in January. Not only did many of the recovered components display brands of companies based primarily in the U.S., but a large number of them were produced within the last three years. Investigators determined that the North Korean ballistic missile included more than 290 non-domestic electronic components. According to CNN, around 75% of the missile components were designed and sold in the United States, and 16% of components were linked to companies in Europe. https://kyivindependent.com/north-ko...an-components/

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Armistead

The West never gave Ukraine what it needed to fight the war, weapons that could actually end the war, long range platforms that could strike into Russia along with all the other battlefield stuff. I think it was just giving enough to put Russia through the meat grinder while spending billions to enrich defense contractors and line the pockets of a mass of corrupt people. Russia, China and friends are playing the long game for world domination while the West is imploding their nations with a mass of stupid progressive policies that pander to global corporatism. Another decade I imagine most of Europe will be bowing to Mecca and the US will become a Spanish speaking nation. Multiculturalism will finally implode the melting pot of the West.

The American seeds of democracy have not sprouted on the so-called Ukrainian soil.
When аmericans get into some regions on other continents, a bloody meat grinder always begins there.
The boomerang always returns to where it was launched from.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

The American seeds of democracy...

"The American seeds of democracy" pfff The term democracy first appeared in ancient Greek political and philosophical thought in the city-state of Athens during classical antiquity. Shortly after becoming independent in 1991, Ukraine named a parliamentary commission to prepare a new constitution, adopted a multi-party system, and adopted legislative guarantees of civil and political rights for national minorities. A new, democratic constitution was adopted on 28 June 1996, which mandates a pluralistic political system with protection of basic human rights and liberties, and a semi-presidential form of government.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

"The American seeds of democracy" pfff The term democracy first appeared in ancient Greek political and philosophical thought in the city-state of Athens during classical antiquity. Shortly after becoming independent in 1991, Ukraine named a parliamentary commission to prepare a new constitution, adopted a multi-party system, and adopted legislative guarantees of civil and political rights for national minorities. A new, democratic constitution was adopted on 28 June 1996, which mandates a pluralistic political system with protection of basic human rights and liberties, and a semi-presidential form of government.

Your diplomats always mention this term. They also wanted to bring democracy to Afghanistan. But it somehow didn’t take root there. I had to retreat. Don't waste expensive tomahawks on adobe huts. LOL
PS: After the Russians left Afghanistan, they left behind infrastructure - they built houses, shops, cultural centers. All this was left to the Afghans people.
What did the Americans leave behind in Afghanistan? Only scorched areas.

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

Your diplomats always mention this term. They also wanted to bring democracy to Afghanistan. But it somehow didn’t take root there. I had to retreat. Don't waste expensive tomahawks on adobe huts. LOL
PS: After the Russians left Afghanistan, they left behind infrastructure - they built houses, shops, cultural centers. All this was left to the Afghans people.
What did the Americans leave behind in Afghanistan? Only scorched areas.

There are no American troops in Ukraine, Ukraine does not ask the West to fight for them, they want to defend their own democracy they only ask to give them the tools to defeat the Russian authoritarian system.

[Skybird]

kpv1974,

Ukrainians wanted freedom from Russia in 2014, they did not need anyone seeding democracy. When they did voice their will, the Moscow-loyal puppet president gave the order to start shooting at them on the Maidan after he betrayed after the elections his promises to bring Ukraine closer to the eU, the promise that he got voted for in the first, and which Ukrainians by overwhelming majority wanted. But he wanted to kick them back into Moscow'S orbit again. After the Maidan resistence, and the people who got murdered there by Moscow loyalists and Russian agents, Moscow started the now ten year long war against Ukraine, determined to use force to bring it back into its possession, and it invaded Crimea and the Donezk area later on.

And the West did nothing in both cases, which is the big guilt we must confess to.

Leave your fascist propaganda and your lies about how much you Russians bring democracy and freedom to Ukraine for the likes of yours. In this forum, nobody will give a damn for your murderous defence of genocide, war crimes, torture, mass rapings, and mass assassinations. Next you want to tell us that Stalin was a man loving humanist and meant it only well with the millions of Ukrainians (and Russians) he killed, eh? The Ukraionains desperately fight agaiunst you, and that says all ther eis to know about your relation woith them. You are not wanted. Never were, btw. You are the brutal villains in this story.

Your Russia is not the liberator of Ukraine. Your Russia is the Nemesis of it, and many other people. You stand on the evil side of history. There is no glory and no pride in your cause. Just darkness, brutality, inhumanity, and pain.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

There are no American troops in Ukraine, Ukraine does not ask the West to fight for them, they want to defend their own democracy they only ask to give them the tools to defeat the Russian authoritarian system.

I wonder - if the Russians give some fanatical Mexicans “just weapons” so that they kill Americans on the Mexican-American border, how will this be regarded? As a gesture of goodwill?

Don’t be naive - “Patriots” SAM Systems, are themselves managed by specially trained specialists. Ukrainians do not have such specialists. Where do they come from?

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

I wonder - if the Russians give some fanatical Mexicans “just weapons” so that they kill Americans on the Mexican-American border, how will this be regarded? As a gesture of goodwill?

Don’t be naive - “Patriots” SAM Systems, are themselves managed by specially trained specialists. Ukrainians do not have such specialists. Where do they come from?

Let that now be true, Russia is interfering with immigration on the Mexican-American border, LOL stupid is stupid.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

There are no American troops in Ukraine, Ukraine does not ask the West to fight for them, they want to defend their own democracy they only ask to give them the tools to defeat the Russian authoritarian system.

Originally Posted by Skybird

kpv1974,

Ukrainians wanted freedom from Russia in 2014, they did not need anyone seeding democracy. When they did voice their will, the Moscow-loyal puppet president gave the order to start shooting at them on the Maidan after he betrayed after the elections his promises to bring Ukraine closer to the eU, the promise that he got voted for in the first, and which Ukrainians by overwhelming majority wanted.

He also broke his promise not to sever ties with Russia. This was his election promise to his electorate. He wanted to sit on 2 chairs. He lied to the Ukrainians that he would bring them into the European Union, there would be good subsidies (as Poland received from America in his time). And at the same time, he accepted financial tranches from Putin, which ended up in his pockets.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Dargo

Let that now be true, Russia is interfering with immigration on the Mexican-American border, LOL stupid is stupid.

In fact, Russia does not care about the Mexican-American border - you noticed this correctly.
But for some reason the Russian-Ukrainian border is very important to Americans.
Dunning-Kruger effect ?