about Crash, zero-sized 3d-objects, index and shadows in Dat-files

Mister_M · 11-21-23, 11:03 AM

And what is the unknown node that we sometimes see at the end of a .dat file in S3D?

Jeff-Groves · 11-21-23, 11:08 AM

That would be the Type 102 node.

No one that I know of has the exact answer to what it is.

As I stated, that is very old information I posted about the structure.

Jeff-Groves · 11-21-23, 01:52 PM

Now, in a pretty much stock SH3 with GWX 3?
There's 177 files with SHD objects out of 189 folders.
Iceburgs don't have them as an example.

Finding EVERY zero sized 3D objects is gonna be a treat also with S3D.

So by using S3D you'd have to open every dat and find then hand delete things.
I'd do a script for 010 to search those files out myself.
Have fun!

Oh. Out of those 177 files? There 3333 occurrences of SHD_

Jeff-Groves · 11-21-23, 02:36 PM

If someone sends me a link to a Unit with a zero sized object?
I'll look at it and tell you how to find them with a quick search in 010
I'm not looking for them myself.

It's not like I didn't talk about this stuff years ago.

Ya'll should be happy there's still someone that can do/knows things about Hex Editing files still around.

Hebe Vollmaus · 11-21-23, 03:28 PM

Thanks for the information.
I also have saved this before, and some more tips from ref and Anvart years ago.
About the index he states: "Any indexation serves for increase
speeds of objects search in a file!!!".

Looks like i have to repair my broken indexes and see if the game loads faster.

as an example
GWX v3.0 NBC_Deutschland.dat
iD:191740028802A047 S3D:0x47a0028802401719 size:21 (0x15)

S3D says on Model info:
Vertex coordinates: 0 Number of triangles: 0
Vertex indexes: 0 Texture coordinates: 0
Vertex normals: No Texture sets/channels: 1

Jeff-Groves · 11-21-23, 04:29 PM

I don't know if they load faster with a proper index. Never tested for that myself.

I can say with a proper index? I can program a search based on a given ID since the pointer is there.
I'd guess one could use Autoit and do a script for that to use S3D to open files from a list then save as that should rebuild the stock index.

I'll look at the NBC_Deutschland.dat and give you a quick way to find things like that. Now I only use Sweetscape 010 and script with that.
Give me the Node number.

ref and Anvart were a couple that taught me a lot also! DivingDuck was another!

Jeff-Groves · 11-22-23, 01:09 PM

There are 86 zero type objects in 11 Sea Units in GWX 3.
This was a simple search and I did not write a script for it as yet.

Name of file and the position in the file.
To convert the Hex positions below use calculator in programmer mode.
(If I have to explain that? Your in over your head already!)
Open the dat, rebuild the Index, then find the number. Double click and you'll go to the 3D part.

NBC_Deutschland.dat 4CEA2Ah
NBC_Deutschland.dat 5C3745h
NBC_GrafSpee.dat 4CEA2Ah
NBC_GrafSpee.dat 5C3745h
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2AE8EEh
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E1C6Ch
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E1D0Ah
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E84F1h
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E858Dh
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E86A3h
NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E873Fh
NCA_Lutzow.dat 3E0F2Fh
NCA_Lutzow.dat 3E1285h
NCA_Scheer.dat 4CE961h
NCA_Scheer.dat 5C367Ch
NCHT.dat F866Dh
NCHT.dat F8F30h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2807D4h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2811F4h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 28128Fh
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2813ACh
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281447h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281564h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281607h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2816A4h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2817C1h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281864h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281981h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281A1Ch
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281B39h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281BD4h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281CF1h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281D94h
NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281E31h
NDD_Type36A.dat 168619h
NDD_Type36A.dat 1686B6h
NDD_Type36A.dat 1687CDh
NDD_Type36A.dat 16886Ah
NDE_FTboot.dat 1C2484h
NDE_FTboot.dat 1C2521h
NGRA_.dat 15D465h
NGRA_.dat 15D892h
NKLK_.dat 1C242Ah
NKLK_.dat 1CCF9Fh
NKLK_.dat 1CD46Ch
NMAS.dat 4F1806h
NMAS.dat 4F1897h
NMAS.dat 4F19F9h
NMAS.dat 4F440Ah
NMAS.dat 4F44F8h
NMAS.dat 4F4662h
NMAS.dat 4F47D9h
NMAS.dat 4F4873h
NMAS.dat 4F4904h
NMAS.dat 4F4A17h
NMAS.dat 4F4AA7h
NMAS.dat 4F4C08h
NMAS.dat 4F4D1Ah
NMAS.dat 4F4DACh
NMAS.dat 4F4F0Fh
NMAS.dat 4F5023h
NMAS.dat 4F50B5h
NMAS.dat 4F5218h
NMAS.dat 4F532Ch
NMAS.dat 4F53BEh
NMAS.dat 4F5521h
NMAS.dat 4F5635h
NMAS.dat 4F56C7h
NMAS.dat 4F582Ah
NMAS.dat 4F593Eh
NMAS.dat 4F59D0h
NMAS.dat 4F5B33h
NMAS.dat 4FA6BDh
NMAS.dat 4FF09Ch
NMAS.dat 4FF1B2h
NMAS.dat 4FF246h
NMAS.dat 4FF3ABh
NMAS.dat 4FF4C1h
NMAS.dat 4FF555h
NMAS.dat 4FF6BAh
NMAS.dat 4FF7D0h
NMAS.dat 4FF861h
NMAS.dat 4FF9C3h
NMAS.dat 4FFAD6h
NMAS.dat 525B6Ch
NMAS.dat 525DD0h

Hebe Vollmaus · 11-22-23, 01:38 PM

Again thanks for the info!

The interested reader here may already know, but it should be noted that the SHD-node may have a material connected. This may also deleted if it is not otherwise related also to something else. I think this would be relevant for some automatic Deletion.
For such Delete-process i think it is not possible to use a sort of "Mouse-klick - Push-Button" tool what can be found on Internet.
To telecommand S3D it is needed to know what S3D will show after a <STRG-F> + <DEL> Command. Since sometimes there are two SHD-Controllers after another. The tool should be able to read-out this info and react accordingly.

AutoIt is a thing i have never used, so cant tell anything about.

The Deutschland is an example what i call a Zero-sized 3D-object, from what i think all of you already have it on Harddisk. The Node from posted iD in S3D is 161. Below 162 "NBC_Dtland_cabluri02". Hex File position 0x4CEA2A. The iD posted can be found over the Function "Edit/Find..." in S3D. It is the real iD reversed plus 0x in front of.
My private tool is ready to find this, but the whole thing is not qualified for the public yet (maybe never - lets see).

My "Crash"-Ship may be unknown/no longer used today. It was the "Fast Transport" NTR3, made out of the TroopShip TR (NTR), with a second funnel added and some Lifeboats removed. Not really removed but "Zeroit" out.

11-21-23, 01:52 PM	#3
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	Now, in a pretty much stock SH3 with GWX 3? There's 177 files with SHD objects out of 189 folders. Iceburgs don't have them as an example. Finding EVERY zero sized 3D objects is gonna be a treat also with S3D. So by using S3D you'd have to open every dat and find then hand delete things. I'd do a script for 010 to search those files out myself. Have fun! Oh. Out of those 177 files? There 3333 occurrences of SHD_ Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 11-21-23 at 02:21 PM.

11-21-23, 02:36 PM	#4
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	If someone sends me a link to a Unit with a zero sized object? I'll look at it and tell you how to find them with a quick search in 010 I'm not looking for them myself. It's not like I didn't talk about this stuff years ago. Ya'll should be happy there's still someone that can do/knows things about Hex Editing files still around. Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 11-21-23 at 02:54 PM.

11-21-23, 04:29 PM	#6
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	I don't know if they load faster with a proper index. Never tested for that myself. I can say with a proper index? I can program a search based on a given ID since the pointer is there. I'd guess one could use Autoit and do a script for that to use S3D to open files from a list then save as that should rebuild the stock index. I'll look at the NBC_Deutschland.dat and give you a quick way to find things like that. Now I only use Sweetscape 010 and script with that. Give me the Node number. ref and Anvart were a couple that taught me a lot also! DivingDuck was another! Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 11-21-23 at 04:59 PM.

11-22-23, 01:09 PM	#7
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	There are 86 zero type objects in 11 Sea Units in GWX 3. This was a simple search and I did not write a script for it as yet. Name of file and the position in the file. To convert the Hex positions below use calculator in programmer mode. (If I have to explain that? Your in over your head already!) Open the dat, rebuild the Index, then find the number. Double click and you'll go to the 3D part. NBC_Deutschland.dat 4CEA2Ah NBC_Deutschland.dat 5C3745h NBC_GrafSpee.dat 4CEA2Ah NBC_GrafSpee.dat 5C3745h NCA_Lutzow.dat 2AE8EEh NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E1C6Ch NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E1D0Ah NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E84F1h NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E858Dh NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E86A3h NCA_Lutzow.dat 2E873Fh NCA_Lutzow.dat 3E0F2Fh NCA_Lutzow.dat 3E1285h NCA_Scheer.dat 4CE961h NCA_Scheer.dat 5C367Ch NCHT.dat F866Dh NCHT.dat F8F30h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2807D4h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2811F4h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 28128Fh NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2813ACh NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281447h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281564h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281607h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2816A4h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 2817C1h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281864h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281981h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281A1Ch NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281B39h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281BD4h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281CF1h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281D94h NCV_USSEssexCV9.dat 281E31h NDD_Type36A.dat 168619h NDD_Type36A.dat 1686B6h NDD_Type36A.dat 1687CDh NDD_Type36A.dat 16886Ah NDE_FTboot.dat 1C2484h NDE_FTboot.dat 1C2521h NGRA_.dat 15D465h NGRA_.dat 15D892h NKLK_.dat 1C242Ah NKLK_.dat 1CCF9Fh NKLK_.dat 1CD46Ch NMAS.dat 4F1806h NMAS.dat 4F1897h NMAS.dat 4F19F9h NMAS.dat 4F440Ah NMAS.dat 4F44F8h NMAS.dat 4F4662h NMAS.dat 4F47D9h NMAS.dat 4F4873h NMAS.dat 4F4904h NMAS.dat 4F4A17h NMAS.dat 4F4AA7h NMAS.dat 4F4C08h NMAS.dat 4F4D1Ah NMAS.dat 4F4DACh NMAS.dat 4F4F0Fh NMAS.dat 4F5023h NMAS.dat 4F50B5h NMAS.dat 4F5218h NMAS.dat 4F532Ch NMAS.dat 4F53BEh NMAS.dat 4F5521h NMAS.dat 4F5635h NMAS.dat 4F56C7h NMAS.dat 4F582Ah NMAS.dat 4F593Eh NMAS.dat 4F59D0h NMAS.dat 4F5B33h NMAS.dat 4FA6BDh NMAS.dat 4FF09Ch NMAS.dat 4FF1B2h NMAS.dat 4FF246h NMAS.dat 4FF3ABh NMAS.dat 4FF4C1h NMAS.dat 4FF555h NMAS.dat 4FF6BAh NMAS.dat 4FF7D0h NMAS.dat 4FF861h NMAS.dat 4FF9C3h NMAS.dat 4FFAD6h NMAS.dat 525B6Ch NMAS.dat 525DD0h Last edited by Jeff-Groves; 11-22-23 at 01:37 PM.

11-21-23, 11:03 AM	#1
Mister_M Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 925 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	And what is the unknown node that we sometimes see at the end of a .dat file in S3D?

11-21-23, 11:08 AM	#2
Jeff-Groves GLOBAL MODDING TERRORIST Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,654 Downloads: 137 Uploads: 0	That would be the Type 102 node. No one that I know of has the exact answer to what it is. As I stated, that is very old information I posted about the structure.

11-21-23, 03:28 PM	#5
Hebe Vollmaus 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 270 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 1	Thanks for the information. I also have saved this before, and some more tips from ref and Anvart years ago. About the index he states: "Any indexation serves for increase speeds of objects search in a file!!!". Looks like i have to repair my broken indexes and see if the game loads faster. as an example GWX v3.0 NBC_Deutschland.dat iD:191740028802A047 S3D:0x47a0028802401719 size:21 (0x15) S3D says on Model info: Vertex coordinates: 0 Number of triangles: 0 Vertex indexes: 0 Texture coordinates: 0 Vertex normals: No Texture sets/channels: 1

11-22-23, 01:38 PM	#8
Hebe Vollmaus 中国水兵 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 270 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 1	Again thanks for the info! The interested reader here may already know, but it should be noted that the SHD-node may have a material connected. This may also deleted if it is not otherwise related also to something else. I think this would be relevant for some automatic Deletion. For such Delete-process i think it is not possible to use a sort of "Mouse-klick - Push-Button" tool what can be found on Internet. To telecommand S3D it is needed to know what S3D will show after a <STRG-F> + <DEL> Command. Since sometimes there are two SHD-Controllers after another. The tool should be able to read-out this info and react accordingly. AutoIt is a thing i have never used, so cant tell anything about. The Deutschland is an example what i call a Zero-sized 3D-object, from what i think all of you already have it on Harddisk. The Node from posted iD in S3D is 161. Below 162 "NBC_Dtland_cabluri02". Hex File position 0x4CEA2A. The iD posted can be found over the Function "Edit/Find..." in S3D. It is the real iD reversed plus 0x in front of. My private tool is ready to find this, but the whole thing is not qualified for the public yet (maybe never - lets see). My "Crash"-Ship may be unknown/no longer used today. It was the "Fast Transport" NTR3, made out of the TroopShip TR (NTR), with a second funnel added and some Lifeboats removed. Not really removed but "Zeroit" out.