[REL] Real Fleet Boat 2.0

[propbeanie]

Radar mast type... ie: Supported versus unsupported. Some conning towers have slots for the mast to ship through, while others do not, so some radar masts are "smooth" (unsupported), and some have hardware "framing" supports to hold it to the conning tower.



Look at your radar mast install, and see if your conn doesn't have supports for the "smooth" style radar masts, as seen 3rd & 4th from right above, and you might not have the 1st or 2nd radar mast on the right instead... maybe the 5th or 6th... ?? The conns are a mess in the Stock game, and were not fixed in RFB, or most other mods...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

Radar mast type... ie: Supported versus unsupported. Some conning towers have slots for the mast to ship through, while others do not, so some radar masts are "smooth" (unsupported), and some have hardware "framing" supports to hold it to the conning tower.

 

Look at your radar mast install, and see if your conn doesn't have supports for the "smooth" style radar masts, as seen 3rd & 4th from right above, and you might not have the 1st or 2nd radar mast on the right instead... maybe the 5th or 6th... ?? The conns are a mess in the Stock game, and were not fixed in RFB, or most other mods...

firstly, how can i translate the UPC text to the Sensors_sub_US.dat? i ask because you lost me in the explanation above but clearly there must be connection between the UPC-text and the binary-dot-DAT

secondly, prior to firstly, your questions made me stop and think: i had SJ radar before the upgrade and lost it with the upgrade. the UnitParts file does not have any radar equipment so the upgrade has to come from the UpgradePacks.UPC file.
here is related section from UpgradePacks, however i do not know how to parse the last line.

 

[UpgradePack 18]
ID= UpackSJRadarPorpoise
NameDisplayable= SJ Surface Search Radar
Info=SJRadarInfo
Notes=SJRadarNotes
FunctionalType= UpFTypeSensorRadar
UpgradePackSlotType= SurfaceRadarPorpoise
Type=NULL
;UpgradePackInterval=1942-06-01, 1943-09-01
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= 1942-06-01, 1942-10-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1=1942-06-01, 1942-10-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2=1942-11-01, 1942-12-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions3=1943-01-01, 1944-06-18, 0
IDLinkUpgradePackElements= SJRadarApp, NULL, SJRadarAntennaEarlyPorpoise, SJRadarAntennaEarlyPorpoise2

then i compared the antenna section after the upgrade with the antenna section before the upgrade and i discovered that the upgrade neglected to add a piece of equipment, namely the actual antenna mast.

 

not sure where to go because i do not know where i am.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

firstly, how can i translate the UPC text to the Sensors_sub_US.dat? i ask because you lost me in the explanation above but clearly there must be connection between the UPC-text and the binary-dot-DAT

secondly, prior to firstly, your questions made me stop and think: i had SJ radar before the upgrade and lost it with the upgrade. the UnitParts file does not have any radar equipment so the upgrade has to come from the UpgradePacks.UPC file.
here is related section from UpgradePacks, however i do not know how to parse the last line.

 

[UpgradePack 18]
ID= UpackSJRadarPorpoise
NameDisplayable= SJ Surface Search Radar
Info=SJRadarInfo
Notes=SJRadarNotes
FunctionalType= UpFTypeSensorRadar
UpgradePackSlotType= SurfaceRadarPorpoise
Type=NULL
;UpgradePackInterval=1942-06-01, 1943-09-01
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= 1942-06-01, 1942-10-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1=1942-06-01, 1942-10-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2=1942-11-01, 1942-12-31, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions3=1943-01-01, 1944-06-18, 0
IDLinkUpgradePackElements= SJRadarApp, NULL, SJRadarAntennaEarlyPorpoise, SJRadarAntennaEarlyPorpoise2

then i compared the antenna section after the upgrade with the antenna section before the upgrade and i discovered that the upgrade neglected to add a piece of equipment, namely the actual antenna mast.

 

not sure where to go because i do not know where i am.

You are missing a "translation" file in your radar "hunt"... Firstly though, first things first - lol - The "ActiveUserPlayerUnits" part that you point to (the same thing as in NSS_SubName.upc) is the "Slot" something sits in. If it is "upgradeable", it will show "AcceptedType" as "NULL". Otherwise, the gear is named at that slot entry, and it will not be found in an UpgradePackSlot in the section below. For radars, you will often find a "UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment x.EquipmentSlot y" in the submarine's hull upc and a similar entry of "UnitPart x.Compartment y.EquipmentSlot z" in the UnitPartsXSubName.upc file that holds additional entries. After the equipment entries in the NSS_SubName.upc file is the UpgradePackSlots that list all of the possible upgrades for the slots listed above and in the matching UnitPartsXSubName.upc for the conning tower(s). Those entries point to the slots above for the mounting location(s), as well back to the UpgradePacks.upc file. Inside that UpgradePacks.upc file, you will find how it is "built" from pieces of the Equipment.upc file (or Weapons in the case of guns). That file is where you will find the "ExternalLinkName3D=" line that puts you into the SensorsSub (or other) files. If that "ExternalLinkName3D=" is "NULL", then it is a "virtual" entry. The PPI and A-Scope cabinets are such. From the looks of things, going by the "builds" of the parts into UpgradePacks, it does look like the intention was to have at least some of the "virtual" entries be actual 3D pieces of gear. It is possible to do that, but would be a major undertaking... Anyway, look in the Equipment.upc file (based upon what is found in the UpgradePacks.upc "build") for the "link" to the sensors file... From that info, you might be able to edit the ActiveUser... and other associated files in the Save folder. Back-up all data there first, of course...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

You are missing a "translation" file in your radar "hunt"... Firstly though, first things first - lol - The "ActiveUserPlayerUnits" part that you point to (the same thing as in NSS_SubName.upc) is the "Slot" something sits in. If it is "upgradeable", it will show "AcceptedType" as "NULL".

Otherwise, the gear is named at that slot entry, and it will not be found in an UpgradePackSlot in the section below. For radars, you will often find a "UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment x.EquipmentSlot y" in the submarine's hull upc and a similar entry of "UnitPart x.Compartment y.EquipmentSlot z" in the UnitPartsXSubName.upc file that holds additional entries. After the equipment entries in the NSS_SubName.upc file is the UpgradePackSlots that list all of the possible upgrades for the slots listed above and in the matching UnitPartsXSubName.upc for the conning tower(s). Those entries point to the slots above for the mounting location(s), as well back to the UpgradePacks.upc file. Inside that UpgradePacks.upc file, you will find how it is "built" from pieces of the Equipment.upc file (or Weapons in the case of guns).

That file is where you will find the "ExternalLinkName3D=" line that puts you into the SensorsSub (or other) files. If that "ExternalLinkName3D=" is "NULL", then it is a "virtual" entry. The PPI and A-Scope cabinets are such. From the looks of things, going by the "builds" of the parts into UpgradePacks, it does look like the intention was to have at least some of the "virtual" entries be actual 3D pieces of gear. It is possible to do that, but would be a major undertaking... Anyway, look in the Equipment.upc file (based upon what is found in the UpgradePacks.upc "build") for the "link" to the sensors file... From that info, you might be able to edit the ActiveUser... and other associated files in the Save folder. Back-up all data there first, of course...

thanks for the explanation, PB.

armed with the above, i still couldn't figure out what was wrong.
so, i started a new Porpoise career with a starting date of mid-1943 in order to see how the game would build a Porpoise in the same time period assuming that the newer conning tower and equipment would be included. and it was.

i then compared ActiveUserPlayerUnits of the upgraded Porpoise to the same file in the mid-1943 Porpoise. the results showed that the upgraded Porpoise was missing an equipment entry:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UnitPartSlot 1.UnitPart.Compartment 1.EquipmentSlot 1.Equipment]
ID=SJRadarAntennaEarlyPorpoise2
NameDisplayable=Radar Mast (SJ)
EquipmentInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
EquipmentSlotType=NULL
ExternalLinkName3D=NSS_EarlySJ_PClass_Mount
FunctionalType=EqFTypeRadarAntennaSJEarly

i guess you could say that this could be the root cause of the radar not working, eh?

so, i cut-paste the equipment definition from the Mid-1943 model to the upgraded model and shoved off. when i checked the radar function, eh voila, it worked. whew.

so, now, the question is: how could SH4 execute a programmed upgrade and forget to install a piece of equipment?

[propbeanie]

... uhhh... Deck Guns??

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

... uhhh... Deck Guns??

ok, ok, deck guns.

now a radar antenna.

the hits just keep on coming.

[KaleunMarco]

Career Start December 1941 in Manila driving a Porpoise.

The Porpoise has four conning towers available, the second tower (first upgrade) is available January 1943.
The third tower (second upgrade) is available April 1943.

It took several missions during 1943 to actually get it.

 

on the last two 1943 missions, we took damage, including hull damage, and attained a mission rating of two in each.

And so, it continues to play out in the US Pacific portion of SH4 that a conning tower upgrade requires multiple, consecutive missions with damage incurred and a mission rating greater than 1. It seems, and I stress seems, that a mission rating of three disqualifies the upgrade. Twos and ones along with consecutive missions with some hull damage seem to cause the upgrade.

Next upgrade is August 1944 and it appears to be just a paint job.

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

Career Start December 1941 in Manila driving a Porpoise.

The Porpoise has four conning towers available, the second tower (first upgrade) is available January 1943.
The third tower (second upgrade) is available April 1943.

It took several missions during 1943 to actually get it.

 

on the last two 1943 missions, we took damage, including hull damage, and attained a mission rating of two in each.

And so, it continues to play out in the US Pacific portion of SH4 that a conning tower upgrade requires multiple, consecutive missions with damage incurred and a mission rating greater than 1. It seems, and I stress seems, that a mission rating of three disqualifies the upgrade. Twos and ones along with consecutive missions with some hull damage seem to cause the upgrade.

Next upgrade is August 1944 and it appears to be just a paint job.

i think i have this figured out.

August 5, 1944. last two missions we took hull damage. this mission, which just ended, successfully, we took hull damage and were awarded a two for the mission and we received the fourth and final conning tower upgrade to the Porpoise. my apologies for not capturing the upgrade screen. for some reason ctrl+f11 did not work this time. stupid game.

anyway, the US tower upgrade seems to require at least two preceding missions with hull damage and a mission rating of one or two but not three.

i intend to move on to another boat class and keep trying to solidify the requirements for a tower upgrade for US boats.

[propbeanie]

We'll have to gather up all of your "study" posts, and compile them into a pdf. Maybe title it "An Exercise In Frustration"... ??