I don't understand the sensors

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete

I see the confusion. It's been a Long time since I worked on these sensor files so I opened them up again in S3D. I changed the ranges for the following sonars--147A, 144A, 128A, 123A, QGAA, QCIA and QCeA. The important designation is the "A" at the end of each sensor name. That means the file is for active sonar. While it does say "Hydrophone" in those files, it actually pertains to the active sonar ranges (99.78% Positive).

These ranges are then modified by SH3 weather, surface factor (your profile aspect to the hunting escort) etc. The most important factor is escort Crew Quality. Only elite escorts get the benefit of the full 2500 meter range. Decreasing crew experience levels drops that range quickly. If I remember correctly, a veteran crew will only use 80% of that range. Average 60% (and so on).

I've been using the mod and it seems to me to be working well. I get pinged a Lot more and if there are 2 or 3 escorts after me, it can take some work to elude them. I had 3 on me for a couple hours the other night and I couldn't get away even though I went 180 meters in March of 41. Finally 2 of them went away (after dropping all their dc's, naturally) and I was able to give the last one the slip by keeping in him in my baffles between 160 and 200 degrees and running at 2 knots.

In summation, I believe the mod is working. However, results vary wildly when considering all the modifiers. It's quite different from stock in my experience though the difference can be very subtle to determine.

If I'm wrong about how I modded the sonars, I'd sure be happy to be corrected so I can try to fix any errors.

Yes, I was wondering if that was the case; the file naming confusion. I recall years ago that was addressed (the mismatching of sonar/hydrophone labeling) but am to lazy to look it up again. I bet you're correct in thinking they're actually sonars you've changed.
But I also seem to recall that the escorts won't ping you without having a phone contact first (which is wrong, but anyway), so increasing the phone range could also have the affect of more pinging if so. Really nice work regardless Grumpy.
Another trick that can help making the escorts less dumb (and they need all the help they can get) is to not have the thermal layer effect used with Sh3 Commander.

[Mister_M]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

But I also seem to recall that the escorts won't ping you without having a phone contact first (which is wrong, but anyway)

Based on my previous tests, it seems to me that the AI uses both (hydrophone + ASDIC) at the same time.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Mister_M

Based on my previous tests, it seems to me that the AI uses both (hydrophone + ASDIC) at the same time.

That would be news then as years ago iirc it was established no asdic until a phone contact.
Maybe things changed.

[Grumpy Pete]

After plying a couple more patrols while considering this thread, I can say you're both right. John is correct that the stock sensors never seemed to use active sonar unless a hydrophone contact had occurred first. That was my experience as well. However, extending the active sonar range seems to have changed that. Here is the proof.

After attacking a convoy, two escorts headed to my probable location. I was in a pretty good spot so I remained at periscope depth to make my escape easier (it's always easier to escape from an escort you can see and I play with disabled external view). I maintained slient running and there had been no indications I had been spotted. The escorts started doing circles and dropped no depth charges. Then one of them started to ping me from about 1600 meters. I was at 2 knots speed and it was my baffles so in the course of 10+ pings it never gained contact. I continued to pull away and on its next "lap" it pinged me four or five times again, failing to find me. After that I went and made a snack as I knew I was going to be clear when they gave up the chase. They never contacted me, never dropped any depth charges but still tried to acquire me using active... I had the same thing happen on my next patrol although I was at 100 meters and couldn't observe the escorts. However, while they pinged me, they never made contact or made any attacks.

I believe the escorts only use one of their sensors at a time and the hydrophone is their "run-home-to mama" default. However, with active sensor range increased, the sim seems to know it has 2 methods of making contact. The original ranges were so short that it didn't even try active on an undetected target. So--it appears that has changed. I really hadn't thought about it since I was trying to avoid "going under the hood" again and just have some fun actually playing the game rather than improve it.

For the record, I'm currently running the OneAlex Grey Wolves compilation and the only additional mod is my active sonar tweaks. Another thing to consider is that both of these cases happened in early '41 so the escort are probably usinfg Type 123 or 128 systems (I don't remember the dates systems become available). Later systems have similar ranges but better sensitivity.

I though about tweaking the passive ranges like John suggested but that puts my farther under the hood than I want go right now. I'm really just having fun playing the game right now after a significant hiatus.

Off topc: The carreer previous to the one I am playing now was the shortest in all the rediculously many hours I have played this game. I get on my new boat and was leaving the dock at Lorient when we came under air attack. We got straddled by 2 bombs which immediately destroyed the engine rooms. The boat sank with the loss of all hands before making the first turn to leave Lorient. I went and made a snack.

[John Pancoast]

Good stuff Pete thanks, and thanks for your work. I haven't played SH3 for quite a while now, but as dumb as the escorts are and as overly affective as the silent running is, I also just many times let the game run and went to do other things while escaping an attack, etc.
I wouldn't mess with the passive settings unless you want to drive yourself crazy; dog chasing it's tail scenario that ends up being a waste of time.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I also just many times let the game run and went to do other things while escaping an attack, etc.

Do try to include cleaning up after yourself Herr Kaleun!

[Grumpy Pete]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Do try to include cleaning up after yourself Herr Kaleun!

One of those rare instances where not flushing is an improvement.