Titanic firm submersible missing.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

I
How many that sent help will Sue for costs? Kinda stupid to send help if they had known that information.

Rescue efforts for the missing Titanic sub will probably cost millions, but it's unlikely OceanGate and its wealthy customers will be expected to foot the bill. A former Coast Guard commandant says that the massive search-and-rescue operation for the missing Titanic submersible will likely end up costing millions but that it would be unusual for the company running the vessel to have to pay the US back.

The US and Canadian authorities deployed at least one submarine, several aircraft, and sonar buoys to search for the submersible, which disappeared on Sunday while on the way to the Titanic shipwreck.

On Thursday, the operation was called off after debris from the sub was found and the five-person crew was presumed dead by the US Coast Guard.

During the search, special equipment, including the US Navy's Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System, or FADOSS, and a French deep-diving robot, were dispatched to find and possibly retrieve the submersible.

Chris Boyer, the executive director of the National Association for Search and Rescue, told The New York Times that the mission would "probably cost millions." Ret. Adm. Paul Zukunft, who previously led the Coast Guard, told The Washington Post that OceanGate Expeditions, the company that runs tours with the submersible, wouldn't be expected to reimburse the US government.

"It's no different than if a private citizen goes out and his boat sinks. We go out and recover him. We don't stick them with the bill after the fact," Zukunft told the outlet.

OceanGate charges people $250,000 each to see the Titanic, which rests some 13,000 feet underwater. The five people who died in the doomed vessel included the company's CEO and at least two billionaires.

The submersible, called Titan, was made of carbon fiber and started running annual tours in 2021. It went missing and imploded on its third expedition.

Mike Reiss, a former passenger who went on four trips with OceanGate, said that dives on the Titan were sometimes canceled due to dangerous weather conditions and that the vessel regularly lost communication with its mother ship. In 2018, the Titan's designers were confronted with safety concerns from a now-fired company executive and the Marine Technology Society — though it's unclear whether those issues were later addressed by OceanGate.

It's also unclear whether OceanGate requires its customers to obtain insurance before their trips, but the passengers were likely aware of the risks of embarking on a dive in the submersible.

David Pogue, a CBS correspondent who tried the submersible last year, said he had to sign a waiver before participating in the dive that acknowledged the Titan was an "experimental vessel" that wasn't "approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, emotional trauma, or death."

Reiss, a writer and producer for "The Simpsons," told CNN that he knew he might die when he visited the Titanic wreck with OceanGate last year.

"This wasn't a vacation. It wasn't tourism. It was exploration. And you're getting on a ship that's the best it could be, but they're learning as they go along," Reiss said. The five people in the submersible knew the risks that came with the trip, Reiss added.

"They made it as safe as they could make it. They trusted their own lives to it," Reiss said. "But they knew it could end this way."

The navy knew about ther Seismic event recording but it takes time thru channels to release that secret information.

[Jeff-Groves]

All I can say is Ya got to anyone that would pay that much money to climb into what is basically a garbage can and decend into the depths.

Last words were probably...............

"OH SH.."

[Platapus]

Unfortunately, the Titan sank in Lawyer infested waters.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Unfortunately, the Titan sank in Lawyer infested waters.

Just wait until they see the photo of the monitor mount attached by screwing directly into the pressure hull.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Just wait until they see the photo of the monitor mount attached by screwing directly into the pressure hull.

Not seen that, do you have a link?

[Exocet25fr]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeople...it_ends_badly/

[Jimbuna]

Merci

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Exocet25fr

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeople...it_ends_badly/

Is that really part of the hull, or is it an interior lining/cladding/cover?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by em2nought

Just wait until they see the photo of the monitor mount attached by screwing directly into the pressure hull.

No kidding, I saw that image. That's crazy!

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

The navy knew about the Seismic event recording but it takes time thru channels to release that secret information.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/titanic...ology-8c020e7b

There are government secrets, and then there are government secrets about underwater spying.

Of all the categories of national secrets the U.S. government keeps, few have been as tightly guarded as how the military uses sophisticated acoustic technology to keep an ear on what its adversaries are doing thousands of feet below the sea.

Driving the push for such capabilities are decades of Cold-War brinkmanship and fears about Soviet submarines that could launch nuclear weapons. Today’s tensions with China have provided a reminder of the systems’ importance: The People’s Liberation Army Navy sails a fleet of dozens of submarines, including six that can carry ballistic missiles. “Anything involving the nuclear triad is supersecret,” said Brynn Tannehill, a senior technical analyst at RAND, referring to the strategic concept of nuclear weapons deployed from land, sea and air. “Anything involving U.S. sensor capabilities is supersecret.”

One such system—it couldn’t be determined which—heard what officials thought could be the implosion of the Titan submersible just hours after the vehicle began its voyage Sunday to the wreck of the Titanic. The U.S. Navy reported its findings to the Coast Guard commander on site, U.S. officials said. While the Navy couldn’t say definitively the sound came from the Titan, the discovery helped to narrow the scope of the search for the lost craft before its debris was discovered Thursday.

U.S. efforts to develop underwater-surveillance capacities trace back more than a century. Sonar, which uses sound waves to detect and locate objects, was used in World War I by the British and others to detect submarines. During World War II, the U.S. developed long-range sonar systems to detect German U-boats in the Atlantic.

At the dawn of the Cold War, the U.S. began work on what would become the Sound Surveillance System, or SOSUS. Developed to detect Soviet nuclear submarines, SOSUS relied on a network of listening devices called hydrophones fixed to the sea floor. Even the program’s name was kept classified until after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The location and capabilities of the hydrophones remain secret today. The system remains in use today, and it likely detected the noises made by the implosion of the Titan, said Tannehill, the Rand analyst. But other detection methods might also have aided the search. Whatever happened, it might be a long time before the government discloses its secrets.

“As soon as you start talking about anti-submarine warfare systems and boats in the North Atlantic, you immediately hit top-secret clearance,” Tannehill said.

“So if the Navy doesn’t seem particularly forthcoming, it can’t be particularly forthcoming without presidential authority to declassify anything they say,”

the BOTTOM LINE from someone who been to the bottom-several times-33 dives to RMS titanic alone!!: https://nypost.com/2023/06/23/james-...for-implosion/

James Cameron on Friday blamed the carbon fiber composite construction hull of the doomed OceanGate submersible for its tragic implosion this week. It was always doomed to implode: James Cameron says Titan sub's Achilles heel was 'fundamentally-flawed' carbon fiber hull which weakened after each of its 10 expeditions - and fears occupants may have realized they were about to die
There were two titanium end caps on each end. They are relatively intact on the sea floor. But that carbon fiber composite cylinder is now just in very small pieces. It's all rammed into one of the hemispheres. It's pretty clear that's what failed.'

Rush, who died in the Titan incident, said in a video posted online in 2021 that he had 'broken some rules' to create the vessel and added: 'The carbon fiber and titanium, there's a rule you don't do that – well I did.'

He also said in 2020 that the hull had 'showed signs of cyclical fatigue'.

Carbon fiber is prone to delamination, the process whereby a material fractures into layers while put under pressure.

Cameron said: 'The way it fails is it delaminates. You have to have a hull, a pressure hull, made out of a contiguous material like steel, or like titanium, which is the proven standard.'

'This OceanGate sub had sensors on the inside of the hull to give them a warning when it was starting to crack. And I think if that's your idea of safety, then you're doing it wrong. And they probably had warning that their hull was starting to delaminate, and it started to crack...
The material likely led to the “critical failure” that claimed the lives of five passengers aboard the minivan-sized craft, Cameron told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos.

“You don’t use composites for vessels that are seeing external pressure,” he said. “They’re great for internal pressure vessels like scuba tanks, for example, but they’re terrible for external pressure.”

Cameron said the submersible’s designers relied on aviation engineering rather than submergence technology — an approach he believes led to the implosion during a tour of Titanic wreckage. ames Cameron on Friday blamed the carbon fiber composite construction hull of the doomed OceanGate submersible for its tragic implosion this week.
The material likely led to the “critical failure” that claimed the lives of five passengers aboard the minivan-sized craft, Cameron told ABC News’ George Stephanopoulos. “They fail over time, each dive adds more and more microscopic damage,” he said. “So, yes, they operated the sub safely at Titanic last year and the year before, but it was only a matter of time before it caught up with them.” The film director said he had warned other would-be explorers against using submersibles made using composite materials, telling one such owner “you’re going to die down there, if you dive that thing.”
“I wish I'd spoken up, but I assumed somebody was smarter than me, you know, because I never experimented with that technology, but it just sounded bad on its face," Cameron told Reuters.

OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, who died in the submersible, previously asserted that carbon fiber was preferable to alternatives like titanium.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lles-heel.html <Cameron in 2012 after his successful solo dive in Deepsea Challenger to the deepest-known point on Earth, the Pacific Ocean's Mariana Trench

[Bilge_Rat]

on the USN detecting the explosion.

It is not as simple as some people make it out. SOSUS is highly classified, but some stuff is always coming out. I don't think someone actually heard the "implosion" or recorded it. SOSUS has sensors placed in strategic locations around the ocean, they listen to overything, but since the Oceans are very noisy, computers will try to pick up unusual wavelengths that could identify enemy subs.

When USS Thresher went down in 1963, SOSUS sensors picked up the "implosion", but based on what I read, it was more of an unusual blip. Technicians then had to analyse to see what it was and , as I recall, it was only by correlating the time with the Thresher timeline, that they were able to say it was a recording of the implosion.

Obviously things have changed in 60 years, but you probably had the same process where it took some time until they could see that SOSUS had actually recorded the Titan imploding.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

SOSUS has sensors placed in strategic locations around the ocean

...well any SOSUS in Newfoundland waters would have to be 'purely tactical"

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

on the USN detecting the explosion.

It is not as simple as some people make it out. SOSUS is highly classified, but some stuff is always coming out. I don't think someone actually heard the "implosion" or recorded it. SOSUS has sensors placed in strategic locations around the ocean, they listen to overything, but since the Oceans are very noisy, computers will try to pick up unusual wavelengths that could identify enemy subs.

When USS Thresher went down in 1963, SOSUS sensors picked up the "implosion", but based on what I read, it was more of an unusual blip. Technicians then had to analyse to see what it was and , as I recall, it was only by correlating the time with the Thresher timeline, that they were able to say it was a recording of the implosion.

Obviously things have changed in 60 years, but you probably had the same process where it took some time until they could see that SOSUS had actually recorded the Titan imploding.

Through triangulation of various sensors, Sosus is more accurate than than what may be believed. Also, with more sophisticated and powerful computers that are programed to detect anomalies, it's a lot easier to differentiate and filter events like an implosion from background noises like marine life that are Indigenous to the oceans as opposed to ships and the like.

Sosus also recorded the loss of the Scorpion (SSN-589 ) Navy Scientist John P. Craven confirmed that many times in interviews.

[Aktungbby]

Keep down the noise Comrades or they'll hear us!

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Through triangulation of various sensors, Sosus is more accurate than than what may be believed. Also, with more sophisticated and powerful computers that are programed to detect anomalies, it's a lot easier to differentiate and filter events like an implosion from background noises like marine life that are Indigenous to the oceans as opposed to ships and the like.

Sosus also recorded the loss of the Scorpion (SSN-589 ) Navy Scientist John P. Craven confirmed that many times in interviews.

Triangulation tells you WHERE something has happened, but not WHAT has happened. Finding out what has happened just by its sounds is difficult enough at the surface and in the air, but a real challenge underwater. Of course the location could have given clues and they could have (and likely will have) made a presumption, but it takes time to confirm it.