A few new ideas

Fidd · 06-13-23, 02:14 PM

21. Huff-Duff (High Frequency DF)
Whenever the radio is used, there should be a % risk per character sent, of escorts getting a bearing of the transmitting u-boat. After a short interval, (where the escorts would share the frequency being used by the u-boat and it's approximate DF bearing) any further transmissions would have a higher % per character of being detected. If a second DF bearing is gained by the escorts, a tribal or Bittern is sent at full-speed to that fixed position, and there executes an asdic search, and opens fire if the u-boat is on the surface. If the escort makes no contact at the DF'd position, it returns at full-speed to the convoy. Not more than two escorts at a time would be detached.

Not sure when "Huff-Duff" was implemented? I hope eventually that the game will model the technical progress for both u-boats and escorts, and the counter-measures of each....

Fidd · 06-15-23, 01:56 PM

22. Crouching/kneeling/Sitting position?

In the aft torpedo room there's provision for a torpedo to be in the ready to load cradle, however it's not present, unlike the single torpedo in the forward torpedo room. The reason for this is, I believe, because the (standing) chief would not be squeeze between it and the e-motor controls either side?

It would be nice, if eventually the lifting cradles operated to retrieve under-floor and their associated lateral worm-gear to bring them to a ready to load condition for a particular tube. It's forseeable that one day there might be a playable torpedo operator in the torpedo rooms, operating the loading kit, setting gyro angles, and firing torpedo's according to whatever signalling system the Germans used. In order to be able to do that, some means of "wriggling around obstacles" or alternate viewing angles from poses (seated/crouched etc) maybe required to allow torpedo settings and e motor controls and dials to be seen whilst "ready to load torpedoes" are hanging on the cradle, in any of the positions for forward or aft tubes?

Other possibilties are for the sonar/radioman, and chief to adopt sitting positions in chairs or platforms where these exist.

Fidd · 06-20-23, 05:54 PM

23. Rework of crush-depth, incremental damage/flooding from deep operation and session randomisation.

One of the weaker areas of this game, if I may be permitted to suggest it, is the reliability with which all manner of dangerous manoeuvres or assumptions may be made, because "values are known". Examples of this are visual ranges, where escorts may safely be regarded as unable to see you, crush depth, ability to drop to 185m and be unlocatable by enemy hydrophones and so forth.

I think the game needs more randomisation, within a wider set of values, so that these assumptions about how deep the u-boat may safely dive, where you can and cannot be seen, and the AI of DCing are made more "fluffy" as values.

For example, if "the ability for the AI to see" xyz was semi-random to a degree, then it'd no longer be possible to rely absolutely that an escort has not seen you because you're at such and such a range.

Similarly, to my mind, I'd like to see semi-random small leak events occurring in the boat as the boat gets below the semi-random crush-depth of that u-boat on that play-session. Meaning that it'd no longer be possible to dive the boat to 10m above the known crush-depth with no complicating issues of leaks, and without the certainty of the crush depth.....

Taking out these predictable behaviours and predictable sight ranges, crush depths, noise acquisition ranges etc will I think improve the game in the long term. Currently, as things stand, once you've mastered roles, and have learned "the values" of the things I cite above, it really removes any scope for further interest in the game. Which need not be the case....

Adriatico · 06-22-23, 03:52 PM

Is the single player going to be somewhat simplified in u-boat management... with some less entertaining activities&procedures to set to simplified or automatic ?
(20% closer towards Silent hunter 3/4/5 gameplay)

I am fanatic of Submarine single player sims (veteran player) but I guess that 60% of market is horrified by the obligation to gather a team of players each time they want to play and enjoy the adventure.
(Family people, working people, elderly fans, non English speaking players...) could simply avoid the game - that would force them to torture themselves with gathering a team.

Fidd · 06-24-23, 03:10 PM

If I understand you correctly, it already is via the "bots" system. With the new "engine patch", the really critical thing will be to make the rate at which the bots can change engine configurations SLOWER than those achievable by a player working the controls. The problem being, that if bots are more effecient, then few will use - or want to see used - the new chief role, as the bot can do it quicker. This would render all that work - and testing - essentially worthless, just as the advent of "simplified radio" rendered actual enigma use and morse-code unusable, because there's almost never a critical mass of trained radio operators, and captains prefer the faster communication simple radio confers.

Adriatico · 06-24-23, 05:48 PM

Well, it's up to the predictions - is it going to be a sure "blockbuster" in submarine warfare closer to Silent Hunter... or aimed to fistful sub/crew management fanatics...
I bet that my generation of Grey wolfs veterans will not have a patience to feed, entertain, train, heal,...the crew >or to check out engine room - valve by valve...
The smartest approach would be to offer simplified, medium and realistic options - with a customize each detail option.
This way you would grab 99% of sub-simulation fans market.
People who work or learn, care about real kids and elderly parents > certainly will not have inspiration to care about "crew members".

Aktungbby · 06-24-23, 08:22 PM

Adriatico!

after an 8 year 'silent run'!

Fidd · 06-25-23, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriatico

Well, it's up to the predictions - is it going to be a sure "blockbuster" in submarine warfare closer to Silent Hunter... or aimed to fistful sub/crew management fanatics...
I bet that my generation of Grey wolfs veterans will not have a patience to feed, entertain, train, heal,...the crew >or to check out engine room - valve by valve...
The smartest approach would be to offer simplified, medium and realistic options - with a customize each detail option.
This way you would grab 99% of sub-simulation fans market.
People who work or learn, care about real kids and elderly parents > certainly will not have inspiration to care about "crew members".

I think the new Chief role will give some much needed new skills to learn. provided the bots arn't quicker, it should work well. Of course there'll be 2 weeks of total chaos as we get out heads around it! So the game should cater well for both solo players, and also those who enjoy the challenges of a game with multiple crew manned by real players.

06-22-23, 03:52 PM	#4
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Single player Is the single player going to be somewhat simplified in u-boat management... with some less entertaining activities&procedures to set to simplified or automatic ? (20% closer towards Silent hunter 3/4/5 gameplay) I am fanatic of Submarine single player sims (veteran player) but I guess that 60% of market is horrified by the obligation to gather a team of players each time they want to play and enjoy the adventure. (Family people, working people, elderly fans, non English speaking players...) could simply avoid the game - that would force them to torture themselves with gathering a team. __________________

06-24-23, 05:48 PM	#6
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Well, it's up to the predictions - is it going to be a sure "blockbuster" in submarine warfare closer to Silent Hunter... or aimed to fistful sub/crew management fanatics... I bet that my generation of Grey wolfs veterans will not have a patience to feed, entertain, train, heal,...the crew >or to check out engine room - valve by valve... The smartest approach would be to offer simplified, medium and realistic options - with a customize each detail option. This way you would grab 99% of sub-simulation fans market. People who work or learn, care about real kids and elderly parents > certainly will not have inspiration to care about "crew members". __________________

06-24-23, 08:22 PM	#7
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,979 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	welcome back! Adriatico! after an 8 year 'silent run'! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!!

06-13-23, 02:14 PM	#1
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	21. Huff-Duff (High Frequency DF) Whenever the radio is used, there should be a % risk per character sent, of escorts getting a bearing of the transmitting u-boat. After a short interval, (where the escorts would share the frequency being used by the u-boat and it's approximate DF bearing) any further transmissions would have a higher % per character of being detected. If a second DF bearing is gained by the escorts, a tribal or Bittern is sent at full-speed to that fixed position, and there executes an asdic search, and opens fire if the u-boat is on the surface. If the escort makes no contact at the DF'd position, it returns at full-speed to the convoy. Not more than two escorts at a time would be detached. Not sure when "Huff-Duff" was implemented? I hope eventually that the game will model the technical progress for both u-boats and escorts, and the counter-measures of each....

06-15-23, 01:56 PM	#2
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	22. Crouching/kneeling/Sitting position? In the aft torpedo room there's provision for a torpedo to be in the ready to load cradle, however it's not present, unlike the single torpedo in the forward torpedo room. The reason for this is, I believe, because the (standing) chief would not be squeeze between it and the e-motor controls either side? It would be nice, if eventually the lifting cradles operated to retrieve under-floor and their associated lateral worm-gear to bring them to a ready to load condition for a particular tube. It's forseeable that one day there might be a playable torpedo operator in the torpedo rooms, operating the loading kit, setting gyro angles, and firing torpedo's according to whatever signalling system the Germans used. In order to be able to do that, some means of "wriggling around obstacles" or alternate viewing angles from poses (seated/crouched etc) maybe required to allow torpedo settings and e motor controls and dials to be seen whilst "ready to load torpedoes" are hanging on the cradle, in any of the positions for forward or aft tubes? Other possibilties are for the sonar/radioman, and chief to adopt sitting positions in chairs or platforms where these exist.

06-20-23, 05:54 PM	#3
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	23. Rework of crush-depth, incremental damage/flooding from deep operation and session randomisation. One of the weaker areas of this game, if I may be permitted to suggest it, is the reliability with which all manner of dangerous manoeuvres or assumptions may be made, because "values are known". Examples of this are visual ranges, where escorts may safely be regarded as unable to see you, crush depth, ability to drop to 185m and be unlocatable by enemy hydrophones and so forth. I think the game needs more randomisation, within a wider set of values, so that these assumptions about how deep the u-boat may safely dive, where you can and cannot be seen, and the AI of DCing are made more "fluffy" as values. For example, if "the ability for the AI to see" xyz was semi-random to a degree, then it'd no longer be possible to rely absolutely that an escort has not seen you because you're at such and such a range. Similarly, to my mind, I'd like to see semi-random small leak events occurring in the boat as the boat gets below the semi-random crush-depth of that u-boat on that play-session. Meaning that it'd no longer be possible to dive the boat to 10m above the known crush-depth with no complicating issues of leaks, and without the certainty of the crush depth..... Taking out these predictable behaviours and predictable sight ranges, crush depths, noise acquisition ranges etc will I think improve the game in the long term. Currently, as things stand, once you've mastered roles, and have learned "the values" of the things I cite above, it really removes any scope for further interest in the game. Which need not be the case....

06-24-23, 03:10 PM	#5
Fidd Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Blighty! Posts: 542 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	If I understand you correctly, it already is via the "bots" system. With the new "engine patch", the really critical thing will be to make the rate at which the bots can change engine configurations SLOWER than those achievable by a player working the controls. The problem being, that if bots are more effecient, then few will use - or want to see used - the new chief role, as the bot can do it quicker. This would render all that work - and testing - essentially worthless, just as the advent of "simplified radio" rendered actual enigma use and morse-code unusable, because there's almost never a critical mass of trained radio operators, and captains prefer the faster communication simple radio confers.