[REL] KSDII New Version 1.4.2

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by bratwurstdimsum

Hi there, I'm not sure if I'm doing this wrong or its a feature of KSD II which I'm not aware.

I am attempting to calculate range of a ship using the method from Solution_Solver_Angriffsscheibe_Wiz-Wheel_Attack_Disc_Handbook.pdf
page 13. The problem is when I tried using the periscope, I get a figure less than half of the actual range calculated by the auto TDC. what am I doing wrong?

Unless, I'm looking at the wrong thing, the distance setting on the knob circled in red is 2750m (not 1023m), correct?

[bratwurstdimsum]

Hi yes you are correct, let me explain. I am using the TDC in this example to check my calculations so it’s not in manual mode. The method I’ve described gives me 1023m but the ships distance according to the TDC is 2750m. So my question is does anyone know how to use this periscope to calculate the distance from just the pips on the y axis?

[Kapitän]

Originally Posted by bratwurstdimsum

Hi yes you are correct, let me explain. I am using the TDC in this example to check my calculations so it’s not in manual mode. The method I’ve described gives me 1023m but the ships distance according to the TDC is 2750m. So my question is does anyone know how to use this periscope to calculate the distance from just the pips on the y axis?

Okay, understood. Sorry, I'm afraid, I'm not able to help with this one, as I don't use any of these tools myself ... seems way too tedious to me.

I merely use the namograph in the map view (F5) for speed calculation and for distance measuring the ruler, also, on the map view, that's it ... I figure, I let my Quartermaster do some of the work as well during an attack ;-)

For speed, I usually add another 1-2 knots ... the entire process is a mixture of some limited raw data, experience and pure guestimate ... seems to work okay as well :-)

[ElCid97]

Try using the top of the stack for the red line. It seems the stack is the highest point, which I believe is what they use in this example.

Otherwise, take the mast height and divide by the ticks/mils and then take the inverse tangent (arctan) and multiply by 100. Should be close enough. Arctan is also written as "tan-1" on some calculators.

Ex:

22.5/50=0.45

0.45 arctan=24.2277 ...
24.2277*100=2422.77 => round to about 2,400m for targeting purposes using the height you provided here with the masts and not the stack. The number I got using about 60 on the mils was closer to 2,000m which is still off from what they're saying here.

Please verify for me that this works in general (in the map, for example) since I'm just going off the cuff here based on other angle stuff I've been studying.

Also, I noticed the info is for SH3. This is for KSD2 which is SH4, correct? Is there a difference? What magnification are you using (not what you think you're using, but what's in the mod).

Hope this helps.

Regards,

ElCid97

[bratwurstdimsum]

Hi ElCid and Kapitan,
Thank you for the info I’ll give it a go later today. Yes this info was for SH3 and so I was hoping someone had worked out how to do it given KSD II is still relatively new. I have determined yesterday that range is not essential to get a firing solution but it was just of those things that nagged me. Cheers Jeff

[ElCid97]

Okay, here's what I've been able to figure out just based on math. Not sure if there's something out there that can verify this is how they did it, but it seems to work on paper.

((Mast Height (m) / mils observed) x (Magnification Setting) * 1,000) = Range in meters (approximate)

In other words, take the 22.5 and divide by the 50 mils observed. The answer is 0.45. You then take that and multiply it by the magnification factor. I used 6x in this case. The answer should be 2.7. If you multiply by 1,000 you get 2,700 meters -- which is what I'm seeing (give or take) on the TDC.

I tried other numbers and they seem to make sense from a trig point of view.

As an example, if you take 22.5 and divide by 100 mils you get 0.225. You multiply by 6x and you get 1.35. Multiply by 1,000 and it's 1,350. That would be half the observed distance, which would make sense.

Let me know if you guys are able to test out the formula. It would make sense since it let's you figure out a rough distance without the need for trig. On a slide ruler (straight or circular) it would just be a matter of putting numbers across from each other and interpreting. An answer of 2.65 can be quickly interpreted as 2,650 meters.

Hope this helps!


ElCid97

[bratwurstdimsum]

Hey Elcid thank so much!
I ran your the Arctan, and Magnification x 6 methods and recorded the results in the link below.

I found your first Arctan ranging method did not work for me and your Mag x 6 fell just short so I changed it to x7 instead and that worked great out to ranges up to 3,000m after that there is a degree of error that gets larger, the further away but that is not important anyhow as you would not be firing torpedoes at that range!

((Mast Height (m) / mils observed) x 7 (Mag) * 1,000) = Range (m) approximate)

See here for the video:

[ElCid97]

Glad I could help! We could use this over with the WW I Kaiser mod since it means you're using simple math for targeting.

I've found a way to verify zoom levels. You have to check a "camera.dat" file for optics in the UZO as well as the two periscopes. I believe they are 7x for the UZO and 1.5x/6x for the two scopes, but I have to download something called S3D to read the thing, though. Need to find it here somewhere.

If it's 6x for the scopes, then I would use a factor of 6 for them and not 7 -- even if the answer is a little off. Remember, the max range of a WW I torpedo was about 1500 meters at most (until the end of the war, anyway). These methods were probably taken from the WW I experience, so it wouldn't be surprising that the acuracy drops at longer ranges.

I'll check the file unless someone who knows how to use the S3D beats me to it.

If verified 6x and 1.5x, then the formula can be updated:

For 1.5x
======

((Height (m) / mils observed) * 1500) = Estimated Range (m)

For 6x:
=====

((Height (m) / mils observed) * 6000) = Estimated Range (m)

For 7x (UZO only):
==============

((Height (m) / mils observed) * 7000) = Estimated Range (m)

For scopes with "5" and "10" instead of the 50/100 marks, just adjust the last value to move the decimal point as needed.

Glad this helped!

ElCid97

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Originally Posted by bratwurstdimsum

Hey Elcid thank so much!
I ran your the Arctan, and Magnification x 6 methods and recorded the results in the link below.

I found your first Arctan ranging method did not work for me and your Mag x 6 fell just short so I changed it to x7 instead and that worked great out to ranges up to 3,000m after that there is a degree of error that gets larger, the further away but that is not important anyhow as you would not be firing torpedoes at that range!

((Mast Height (m) / mils observed) x 7 (Mag) * 1,000) = Range (m) approximate)

See here for the video:

the reticle and RAOBF calculation don't match, as well as the zoomfactor. I 've done a personal interface in Dark Waters, I'd do another mod for KSDII later if anyone need. Actually the Peri sight can also cal AOB directly
see my other post.https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/sho...42#post2877942