Tesla: ‘There’s almost no reason to have a gas car’

[August]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

You have to differentiate between the motor/drive train and the power source.

1) Both a combustion engine and an electric engine can survive prolonged periods submerged (and have done so in many cases), and as I said it's much more a question of the level of corrosion rather than the type of engine whether it can be used again with little effort.

2) For the power source it depends on the damage received, but in general electric power sources are more at riks in water compared to combustion engine fuel. The reason for that is rather simple: fuels (diesel, gasoline/petrol, kerosene or whatever you choose) are organic and usually hydrophobic and don't mix well with water (they are nonpolar substances), while the materials used to produce electric energy in batteries are hydrophilic (components need to be polar/ionic) and are more likely to be soluble in water. Any polar fuel (like ethanol/alcohol, for example) suffers from the same problem.

However, I doubt that any non-polar fuel that has been in direct contact with water for a prolonged time can directly be used to power an engine.

But gas or diesel fuel in a gas powered engine is just a consumable whereas batteries in an EV must be replaced, correct?

[Ostfriese]

Originally Posted by August

But gas or diesel fuel in a gas powered engine is just a consumable whereas batteries in an EV must be replaced, correct?

Yes. Even if the cells aren't damaged and remain watertight you'd have to exchange the important substances, and while you could call them "consumables" the entire process is far more difficult.

[mapuc]

I got this idea of a company

What I need is a reinvention of the battery
an expert or three with knowledge in batteries.

And of course experts in developing and making cars.


I have this huge dream about building cars with removable batteries. Where the batteries has the size of an iPad and with a capacity 40-50.000 times higher than todays car batteries used in E-cars and weight 1/20 of a car battery.

I see how people remove the batteries, install them in a charging stations and next day they are fully loaded.

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I got this idea of a company

What I need is a reinvention of the battery
an expert or three with knowledge in batteries.

And of course experts in developing and making cars.


I have this huge dream about building cars with removable batteries. Where the batteries has the size of an iPad and with a capacity 40-50.000 times higher than todays car batteries used in E-cars and weight 1/20 of a car battery.

I see how people remove the batteries, install them in a charging stations and next day they are fully loaded.

Markus

I can refuel my old gas powered vehicle in two minutes. Overnight charging does not cut the mustard. There have been instances where i've driven 800 miles in one single day. That's not happening with an EV.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

I can refuel my old gas powered vehicle in two minutes. Overnight charging does not cut the mustard. There have been instances where i've driven 800 miles in one single day. That's not happening with an EV.

Thank you so much Dave for helping me remember.

My idea is that these batteries can be recharged within 30 min or less
and the battery will be neutral to temp. Same outcome whether it's minus 20 degrees C or + 25 Degrees C.

I imagine the car having 4 batteries.
1+2 batteries Engine
1 battery for the aircondition
1. battery for the electricity.

Markus

[Ostfriese]

Sorry, Markus, that's not going to happen. Downsizing batteries/accumulators without downsizing the capacity has it's limits, and we already are quite close to these limits, as long as we stick to electrochemical reactions, and for those there are no alternatives in sight. There are a few theories about using crystals as energy storages, but that's barely more than science fiction.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Sorry, Markus, that's not going to happen. Downsizing batteries/accumulators without downsizing the capacity has it's limits, and we already are quite close to these limits, as long as we stick to electrochemical reactions, and for those there are no alternatives in sight. There are a few theories about using crystals as energy storages, but that's barely more than science fiction.

I knew you would come up with a response like this one.

It's a dream I have had for almost a decade now.

The idea/dream came when I read an article about Nano/bacteria batteries developed by M.I.T. in winter 2012. Since then I haven't heard anything about these batteries which I see as being dropped,so they has to be reinvented.

These NANO/bacteria batteries had following things compared to a 12 V car battery

(From memory)

weight 1/20 of a Car battery
Capacity 20-30.000 higher
Can't short circuit
Loading time less than 5 min(can't remember exact time)
Fully loaded 12.00000v each time.
No leaking electron

Edit
I made a search and found that there are companies who make these NANO batteries.....to smartphones a.s.o not bigger ones to cars.
End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

I could imagine - layman that I amn - to have flat slot accumulators that ciover the bottom of cars like it is the case today, and instead of recharging them, the full batter ygets replaced at a "gas station". like you switched cassettes in tape recorders. In asia theyx expeirment with thos, esoecialyl in China I read . The extracted battery then gets charged separately. The process, fully automatised could last just a slong as it takes to fuel a gas engoined car. How it is with themogistics needed for such a system, I do not assess, however. But the Chinese trying this, seem to think it can be managed, or not? Of course it needs standardization of accumulator specs and connectors.

VW's new boss, btw, has announced the company will no longer follow all-electric philosophy exclusively, and he said in his vision gas engines still have a future. Realism sets in, I say. The car model plans VW had, with a standardized default electricity platform that then gets further individualised for very model, already have been tackled. VW no longer plans to be all-electric. That is probably owed to the stupid German energy policy with the electritiy supply security being intentionally eroded by the current coalition government. Its stupid to make all your products all electric in a coutnry that becomes more and more unsafe regarding its electricity supply.

The German "visions" will collapse in full. Aber sowas von...! Too bad that I will need to witness it at close range.


My emergency solar battery of 2 kWh would not have gotten recharged much in the past 2-3 weeks. Dark skies at day, no sun.

[Ostfriese]

Exchanging accumulators is not a new idea, and it's technologically possible. But even if you manage to standardize the system down to a single type of cell block (with only different numbers of them in different cars) it won't become economical. It simply requires too much space to store all the spare accumulators.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Ostfriese

Exchanging accumulators is not a new idea, and it's technologically possible. But even if you manage to standardize the system down to a single type of cell block (with only different numbers of them in different cars) it won't become economical. It simply requires too much space to store all the spare accumulators.

Yeah, I feared the challenge with this approach lies in the logistics. Still, theChinese - I think it were the Chinese amongst all those Asians - still run this idea, as an experiment.



The way it is now - pausing a ride for 15-45 minutes to chgarge up, is not pratcial either. Better riding on horses then and changing the horses at post stations along the trail.