Rape lists on British subs...?

[Commander Wallace]

These episodes are also an ongoing problem in the U.S and as you pointed out, in the armed forces of other countries. These may well be for the reasons you pointed out but equally so for a complete lack of discipline.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...tates_military

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

These episodes are also an ongoing problem in the U.S and as you pointed out, in the armed forces of other countries. These may well be for the reasons you pointed out but equally so for a complete lack of discipline.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...tates_military

Discipline or civilizaitonal rules are our attempt - born from intellectual insight and not materially/biologically founded at all - to keep biology and primtive instincts in check. But it exists in the background, always. Keepoing it in check, is often and usually not impossiblel but when you create too exposed, articially "pointy" situations and conditions, it becomes more likely that they fail.


If you put a woman on a crossroad and have her undressing, or a male stripping in a female prison, don't be surprised you get riots and "mishaps". Better expect things to happen if you almost provoke them.



"We had to agree with Freud when he saw in our culture, our civilization, only a thin layer that can be pierced at any moment by the destructive forces of the underworld (...)" - Stefan Zweig, The World of Yesterday. Memoirs of a European

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Discipline or civilizaitonal rules are our attempt - born from intellectual insight and not materially/biologically founded at all - to keep biology and primtive instincts in check. But it exists in the background, always. Keepoing it in check, is often and usually not impossiblel but when you create too exposed, articially "pointy" situations and conditions, it becomes more likely that they fail.


If you put a woman on a crossroad and have her undressing, or a male stripping in a female prison, don't be surprised you get riots and "mishaps". Better expect things to happen if you almost provoke them.



"We had to agree with Freud when he saw in our culture, our civilization, only a thin layer that can be pierced at any moment by the destructive forces of the underworld (...)" - Stefan Zweig, The World of Yesterday. Memoirs of a European

I wasn't saying that genetics doesn't play a role. However, I assure you well regulated military units are equally well disciplined.

[ET2SN]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I wasn't saying that genetics doesn't play a role. However, I assure you well regulated military units are equally well disciplined.

I...... Don't know. I can see women serving on an SSBN. The boat's big enough to allow some segregation and the patrols are fairly regular.

On SSN's its a different game. The quarters are much more cramped and that 4 month deployment might last a LOT longer and you can't hold to a tight schedule.

On the other side of the Rape issue is the basic issue of Power and who controls it. An innocent conversation can turn sour quickly and all of a sudden a crewperson can be dictating terms to the entire command.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by ET2SN

I...... Don't know. I can see women serving on an SSBN. The boat's big enough to allow some segregation and the patrols are fairly regular.

On SSN's its a different game. The quarters are much more cramped and that 4 month deployment might last a LOT longer and you can't hold to a tight schedule.

On the other side of the Rape issue is the basic issue of Power and who controls it. An innocent conversation can turn sour quickly and all of a sudden a crewperson can be dictating terms to the entire command.

As you well know, submarines are a bit different and submariners are an entirely different breed. Even serving on a boomer has it's issues with long patrols. Patrols on attack boats can be equally as long depending on the missions. The " Northern Run " attack boat missions are but one example.

The " grey " areas are pretty wide and things do happen. All of these things mentioned here come into play. Still, I think the crews on these subs are pretty well disciplined. To be honest, serving in this capacity can be an " iffy " proposition. The command and control structure can be an issue as well, if the commander themselves aren't fit to command. That's something you pointed out as well.

[mapuc]

A man a young man can very well live a year or so without sex. I would say they should act as grown-up.

It isn't exactly a heavily addicted drug we are talking about.

That's how I see it.

Markus

[ET2SN]

I DO know.

Just ponder this for a minute, imagine a situation where one guy uses another guy to frustrate a third guy. Its hard to imagine. If someone's giving us grief, we punch each other in the nose and move on. We also can become friends along the way. Its who we are.

Now, imagine the same situation only one or two of the people involved are female. Does that sound far fetched? Remember High School?


We might be a different breed but we aren't perfect.


Along those same lines, who are you going to order to run into a burning or flooding compartment? You don't have time to figure out the pluses and minuses.

Finally, let's wonder about submarine quals. EVERYone is supposed to get the same s####y deal. It not only builds character, it proves that the other folks who already went through it can trust you with their life. That's what quals REALLY mean, are you going to fold when the crap hits the fan?
We can't afford "title 19" because NONE of us get a statue for losing.