Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Skybird]

FOCUS writes with reference to REUTERS:
----------------------------
Despite ongoing military setbacks in Ukraine, a botched mobilization and political infighting, Kremlin ruler Vladimir Putin continues to sit firmly in the saddle of power. According to the Reuters news agency, Putin faces danger only if total defeat looms on the battlefield. Reuters spoke to eight high-ranking sources, including current and former Western diplomats and government officials, according to the report.

Most of them said that while the Russian president is in one of the most difficult situations of his more than two decades in power, there is currently no immediate threat from his inner circle, the military or the intelligence services.
-------------------------------

[Aktungbby]

I've noticed: kpv1974 does seem slightly to the left of centre in the political spectrum?!!

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

I've noticed: does seem slightly to the left of centre in the political spectrum?!!

No, kpv1974 just doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story, typical of those in Russia.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Indirectly, he installed puppets to rule in his name.

The paid puppet leaders were INDEED criticized, by the free world and by their own people. When their own people rebelled like in Germany in 1953 or Checoslovakia in 1968 the protests were brutally subdued or invaded with russian tanks and russian soldiers.
Not that Pravda or TASS or any russian media would have told THIS part of russian history.

Nope, not officially. According to Putin they are all volunteers, and they can leave the front whenever they want.
This at least was Putin's promise to the people.
You do not interfere in my russian oligarchy pool and cleptocracy and stay away from politics, and as a "reward" you will be granted a little bit of a better life. And no war, no conscription.
But you have to see it is the people of a nation who have to decide whether they go along with/help such creatures like Putin or not. The longer they wait, the longer the dictatorship exists, the harder it is to overcome it.
With the current level of surveillance technology it may at some point become impossible, like in China.

>> The paid puppet leaders were INDEED criticized, by the free world and by their own people. When their own people rebelled like in Germany in 1953 or Checoslovakia in 1968 the protests were brutally subdued or invaded with russian tanks and russian soldiers.
Not that Pravda or TASS or any russian media would have told THIS part of russian history.

don't twist the facts.
A joint contingent was brought into Czechoslovakia. There, in addition to the Russians, there were also Poles and Germans. Moreover, the Germans were just the most ardent suppressors of the Czechoslovak uprising. If stones and incendiary bottles were thrown at the Russians, then the Czechs were so afraid to deal with the Germans.

Regarding puppets - well, this is a well-known practice. Has the United States never planted its puppets. Guaido in Vegnezuela - is this not the prototype of a puppet?

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

No, kpv1974 just doesn't let the truth get in the way of a good story, typical of those in Russia.

I operate with facts, not fictional cases.
some things are not what you see.
Learn to look from different angles.

PS: admit it - until 2014, you could not even show on the map where this very Ukraine is located.

[mapuc]

Dear friends

We all have our standpoint which we consider being facts.
The problem is-NONE of us know the exact truth in what you have been
discussing the latest 2-3 hours.

Lets take Czechoslovakia in 1968.

I can only remember some very little part from our history books in the school.
The other thing kpv1974 mentioned
"A joint contingent was brought into Czechoslovakia..."
Was kind of new to me-Not saying it isn't true.
So why not search for information on the web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw...Czechoslovakia

The part where German was mentioned wasn't according to the information on this wiki page taking part in the invasion

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

PS: admit it - until 2014, you could not even show on the map where this very Ukraine is located.

..if Russia hadn't annexed Crimea and some other Oblast in Ukraine we would not have heard of Ukraine...hmm maybe one time per year in our European melody grand Prix.

It was if I remember correctly first after this in 2015 USA and UK started to train Ukrainian in Western Warfare and it was some general who in 2019-20 threw the Russian warfare doctrine out of the window and adopted the Western Warfare doctrine.
(This is what I have been told. I may have missed some part)

Markus

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Dear friends

We all have our standpoint which we consider being facts.
The problem is-NONE of us know the exact truth in what you have been
discussing the latest 2-3 hours.

Lets take Czechoslovakia in 1968.

I can only remember some very little part from our history books in the school.
The other thing kpv1974 mentioned
"A joint contingent was brought into Czechoslovakia..."
Was kind of new to me-Not saying it isn't true.
So why not search for information on the web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw...Czechoslovakia

The part where German was mentioned wasn't according to the information on this wiki page taking part in the invasion

Markus

Immediately there were people who declared it a fiction, and they called me Baron Munchausen, referring to Wikipedia data, which literally says that: “GDR - motorized rifle and tank divisions, up to 15,000 people in total (according to publications in the press from the entry of parts of the GDR into It was decided to abandon Czechoslovakia at the last moment, they played the role of a reserve on the border, and in Czechoslovakia there was an operational group of the NNA of the GDR of several dozen military personnel).
Even if you take only this paragraph, then the clipper will see here that the German troops did not enter, and will not see the lines and letters at all, which indicate specifically that this is “according to publications in the press.” The press, as everyone understands, is not the ultimate truth! There is also other evidence, namely historical documents, photographs, testimonies of eyewitnesses of those events. This time.
Two. "They played the role of reserves." Everyone who has a strategic mindset understands that in tactics and strategy the term "reserve" means troops, military equipment, weapons, stocks of materiel, stored up to a certain time and used only at a special moment. Usually critical, on which the final success depends.
However, there is one proof of the entry of the GDR troops, which was shown even in a completely anti-communist documentary film.
this movie is called Hot Summer 1968 - Czechoslovakia. The film is anti-Soviet. But there is the MAIN. There is the beginning of the text of the rebel radio message about the beginning of the Soviet invasion.
Here's how it sounds in documentary footage:
“To all the people of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic! Yesterday, August 20, 1968, at about 9 p.m., the troops of the Soviet Union, the Polish People's Republic, the German Democratic Republic, the Hungarian People's Republic, the Bulgarian People's Republic crossed the border of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic.
I hope everyone understands that Czechs and Slovaks can distinguish Russians and Poles from Germans.
It is clear that this is evidence of the presence of Germans in the ranks of the allied forces of the Soviet Union, recognized by the most “insurgent insurgents”, you can’t erase from history!
In addition, in numerous Russian forums, there are references to the Germans participating in the Danube operation.
Who in the civilized West needs such "politically incorrect truth" now? Although here we are not talking about Afro-Germans, Afro-French, or even Afro-Norwegians, but only about “proletarian internationalism”.

[kpv1974]

Humane Russians and harsh Germans from the GDR. "Prague Spring" 1968 (memories of our soldiers)
"Despite the fact that there were no military operations during the entry of the Warsaw Pact troops, there were losses. Thus, during the redeployment and deployment of Soviet troops, 11 servicemen, including one officer, were killed as a result of the actions of hostile persons; 87 Soviet servicemen, including 19 officers, were wounded and injured. In addition, 87 people died in catastrophes, accidents, as a result of other accidents, as well as died from diseases.
In the reports and reports of that time, you can read the following lines: "The crew of the tank 64 msp 55 msd (superannuated sergeant Andreev Yu.I., junior Sergeant Makhotin E.N. and Private Kazarik P. D.) on the way met a crowd of young people and children organized by counterrevolutionary elements. In an effort to avoid casualties from the local population, they decided to bypass it, during which the tank overturned. The crew was killed."
The rigid "do not shoot" attitude put the Soviet servicemen in the most unfavorable position. Confident of complete impunity, the "young Democrats" threw stones and molotov cocktails at Soviet soldiers, insulted them and spat in their faces.
Standing guard at the monument to the Soviet soldiers-liberators Yuri Zemkov, someone from the crowd of people eager to desecrate the monument to those who died in 1945, struck a three-sided bayonet in the chest. His comrades raised their machine guns, but, following the order, did not shoot.

As soon as the GDR soldiers appeared nearby, everything became calm. The Germans, without hesitation, used weapons.Nowadays, they prefer to keep silent about the participation of the troops of Bulgaria, Poland and the GDR in the operation. How the countries merged in a single ecstasy of NATO and the EEC! Some have already added to the fact that the GDR troops did not enter Czechoslovakia. However, those who personally took part in those events recall: "The Czechs who lay down on the roads seriously slowed down the advance of Soviet mechanized and tank columns. The tank columns of the GDR passed without even stopping, right on the roads lying on the roads...".
++++++++++++++++++++
"On July 22, 1968, I was drafted into the Soviet Army. After a while I was sent to the Southern Group of troops. The training platoon in which I found myself belonged to a regiment stationed inTekel, 30 kilometers from Budapest.
On August 20th, in the evening, everyone already knew that the war would begin tomorrow. In preparation for the march on Czechoslovakia, large white crosses and stripes were applied to all military equipment in order to distinguish it from exactly the same Soviet-made equipment in service with the "enemy" army in case of collisions. The commanders instructed their soldiers, set goals and objectives. The wives of the officers who lived here, in the military town, were crying. Somewhere a brass band was playing "Farewell of the Slavs". ...
A week later, a deputy engineer, a major, arrived from Czechoslovakia (unfortunately, I don't remember the last name anymore). I was assigned to his department, to the radio workshop. When he saw me, he was amazed at my thinness and said that he would take me with him "to fatten up" - there were increased food standards in the troops that entered Czechoslovakia. The next day, early in the morning, we set off on a medical "rafik". There were three of us-the driver, the major and me. I took with me what I was supposed to - a satchel with a standard set and a greatcoat. I was given a dry ration, an AKM machine gun and three horns of cartridges.
The border between the two countries was a river. We stopped near the Hungarian checkpoint and almost immediately headed across the bridge to the other side. The Czechoslovak checkpoint was passed without stopping. Beyond the bridge was the Slovak town of Komarov. Here, as in all other settlements that we passed, we were greeted by large inscriptions, mostly in Russian. They were painted on roofs, on fences, there were just posters. The content did not vary much. Russian Russians, go home", "Invaders", "Shame!", "1938 - Hitler, 1968 - Brezhnev, Kosygin", "Russian soldier, what will you say to your mother?", "Brezhnev has gone mad", "Dubchek, Chernik, Svoboda", "Go home, our Dubchek "…
There was a machine gun lying next to me, and I was thinking about what I would do if some kind of situation arose. And suddenly I realize that I'm going to shoot. Shoot someone who will threaten my life, and that it is inevitable. I don't belong to myself-since I had to put on this military uniform. I didn't belong to myself in the training platoon. Did not belong then, performing outfits. And now, moving around Czechoslovakia with a machine gun filled with live ammunition, I even more do not belong to myself. I will shoot, because now I am an instrument of the state that threw me here. As a human being, I will shoot because I will be scared.
I was looking at Czechoslovakia. As soon as we crossed the border and found ourselves in the Slovak part of the city, I saw that compared to impoverished Hungary, this is a rich country. This was indicated by the decoration of houses, streets, the clothes of passers-by. There are a lot of cars on the roads. Skoda, Tatras, Muscovites, Volga, foreign cars. The roads are beautiful, but in many places they were scarred by the tracks of past tanks.
At night, without incident, we reached the city of Brno. Our battalion was located at the airfield near this city. I was allocated a place in the Kung for the night.
In the morning I met my future colleagues. The mood of the milestones was good-natured. In the army, "young" is a curse. Over the past month and a half, I have tasted it in full. I was the youngest here, there is no younger. To my surprise, I was accepted here as a person. No one insulted me or belittled me. Soldiers from "other estates" talked to me normally. They asked me something, told me something, and gave me friendly advice. I didn't think it was possible in the army anymore.
The service in this "war" was completely idle. We didn't do anything - only what is necessary to maintain life - cleaning and security. The troops were waiting to see how the political process would end. We were ordered never to part with the machine gun and ammunition. We had lunch with a vending machine, went to the toilet, slept.
Our place was calm, without any excesses, about which we had heard enough at that time. They said that unlike the Soviet troops, the troops of our Warsaw Pact allies who entered with us behaved disgracefully - they fired too much, often without sufficient reason. I don't know how true all these stories were. From reliable - the driver's story. Permian, by the name of Osika - active, not quiet and not cowardly.
He was going somewhere, there were two of them, he and the lieutenant. As luck would have it, in some small Czech town a flat tire. I stopped, I need to change. While he was doing this, people began to approach. There were more and more of them, and now, the crowd had already surrounded the car. They say something emotionally in their own way, shout, gesticulate. The lieutenant is trying to tell them something in Russian - "We came to help you...". They don't listen to him, it only excites the crowd. All this time the driver changes the wheel. "I feel that my hands are shaking, and I can't do anything about it, I'm scared, I can't get into the hub in any way," he said. I somehow put the wheel on, we plunged into the cab, and slowly drove off. The crowd still parted, missed. He felt that if all this had lasted longer, they would have been torn apart, such was the hatred of these people.
Here, someone told a similar case with soldiers from the GDR. The first thing the Germans did when they stopped - one of the two fellow travelers took up the defense with a machine gun at the ready. At the slightest attempt by anyone to approach, shooting started, and there were no such problems.
We were told, verbally and in the form of various printed materials, that we did not come here to fight. We have come to help our friends, poor lost sheep who have lost their way. Perhaps our allies had other motives and, accordingly, other attitudes.
One day local peasants came to our commanders. Some vegetables ripened in the fields, which were closely adjacent to the troops. They ask permission - is it possible to clean. It's scary, there are soldiers with weapons all around. The commanders said that it is possible, and we will help you. They threw a cry, I responded and, together with a dozen other soldiers, went to clean up some turnips. It was a political matter, we had to demonstrate "good will" On this occasion, we were ordered to leave the machine gun "at home", take only a bayonet-knife, which was attached to the belt.
The peasants were good-natured and tried in every possible way to emphasize their loyalty that "they have nothing to do with it", it was some idiots in the capital who started all this mess, and they should sort it out. They spoke in their own way, inserting Russian words that they knew. But there was no big problem with understanding, there were Ukrainians among us, whose language was close to the language of our interlocutors. One man said that his daughter corresponded with a girl from the Soviet Union. " - from the memoirs of O. Khanov

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by August

Certainly no worse than the ignorant falsehoods that you just posted right?

no! no!LEFT!

Originally Posted by August

C'mon now you're not seriously trying to compare limited UN sponsored action with Russian mass murder and large scale ethnic cleansing?
As I recall the only mass murders that happened in Yugoslavia were committed by Russian ally Serbia. Just a chip off the old evil block I guess.

Yup he is!

Originally Posted by kpv1974

Is the USA the hegemon of the whole world?

in KISS word...: YES...since 1945...

Originally Posted by kpv1974

I wonder why Russia is still fighting with "white gloves".
She could take as a basis the American doctrine of "peace enforcement" - first demolish all civilian infrastructure, so that a "ground operation" would not even be required - not even to bring its soldiers into enemy territory.
As it was for example in the former Yugoslavia in Europe, or in Iraq.
When the Americans razed to the ground all the cities of these countries
Russians are too scrupulous???
Maybe they are just fools that they do not follow the American doctrines of warfare?

Could U enumerate which cities R "razed to the ground" or are U exaggerating in true leftist fashion? Bear in mind, the standard for "Razing" still remains Sodom or Hiroshima.

Originally Posted by kpv1974

I know why you are so dumb.
Because rockets don't reach you yet.
But I live in Russia (very close to the Ukrainian border), and I have already felt the missile strikes.
My God, so that Putin does not care about you. About your well being.
My friend, you do not agree with the Americans' assertion that bomb strikes "bring peace"
If you do not agree with this, then you are a typical brainless person.

Bombs did bring peace particularly in WWII. Be advised it is unnecessary to call us 'typical brainless person' when the "brevity is eloquence" 'moron' hath sufficed. All us 182,652 +- 's misanthropic miscreant mancavers will think you're just "running at the mouth!" ceaselessly!

Originally Posted by Rockstar

It’s occurred to me that Russia was never as militarily powerful or capable as we were lead to believe, it’s 4th rate at best. I’m pretty sure Putin was duped by his own intel into thinking he was going to be welcomed as a liberator. But instead Ukraine shot back, which is something Putin didn’t appear to be prepared for.

rule 3 of von Clauswitz after 1: "In all things B strong." 2: "Whenever possible increase firepower." is #3 "Never count on your enemy doing what your plan calls for him to to do...(ie: we didn't land at Calais!)

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

Russians are scrupulous ? Lets see, they run from a fight which makes them cowards in my book. Do you even realize what a joke and laughing stock you and your Russia are ?

Aside from being a tad vituperative, no despot with nukes can B considered a laughing stock. Most particularly that Sino-toady-puppet in N.Korea presently shooting missiles over Japan. When Peter the Grate's Ukraine fiasco is ended, the other shoe over Taiwan will drop and Chairman Xi's Putanic friendship against the 'Merican hegemony will commence in earnest. As with cutting off Japan's oil just prior to Pearl Harbor, we've just cut off Chinese chip manufacture necessary in modern weapons the Chinese are so keen on....they are pissed off! With Iran now in on Russia's side dronewise; and Israel commencing aid to that 'neoNazi' commedian Zelensky, WWIII is well under way...

Originally Posted by kpv1974

History is written by the winners.
So don't be fooled

In Russian history 'General Winter' was Alexander II and Stalin's best commander; ultimately defeating the Grande Armeè and the Wehrmacht of Operation Barbarossa...'twill be interesting to C history repeated this predicted frigid winter...I 'spect we'll throw in serious thermal gear along with the missiles.

Originally Posted by kpv1974

If this is still not clear to you, then you are complete morons.

Originally Posted by kpv1974

You hypocritical bastards.
Your government is always hiding behind your hypocritical American false democracy, which you are trying to carry beyond the borders of your state.
And your government does not ask if this democracy of yours is needed by other countries. It just forces it on.
Why are the Americans climbing into all corners of the globe?
Don't you have enough oh territory that you took away from the Indians, the indigenous peoples of America?

Don't forget Sewards folly, the Czar's sale of Alasksa and all those poor downtrodden enslaved Eskimos, Aleuts, and Umiaks to Ol Abe Lincoln. As for us being hypocritical complete moronic bastards, point well taken but then at least our mother sent us to charm school!

Originally Posted by kpv1974

you want to kill me - just because I'm Russian?

Nope we want U in a labor camp with professional athlete moron Brittany Griner who should hav known painkilling vapes would cause her major issues...where U'll be safer from those ground shaking missiles U bragged about!

Originally Posted by les green01

well shoot you mean we liberated a bunch of countries over there then gave them back and then got ownership of them again after we help rebuild them,never pay twice for real estate and you telling us that putin fell in a ukraine trap well couldn't be under biden he has a hard enough time reading a teleprompter wake up smell what shoveling

That's givin' 'im "the straight poop" and I shovel enough horse stables 2 know!

Originally Posted by Catfish

This is exactky what i mean with throwing it out the window. Do you believe any of those Kleptocrats spent only one rouble of their stolen money from the russian people for RUSSIA? Or for the russian people they stole it from?
My heart bleeds for the russian oligarchs who support Putin and who suddenly reap the whirlwind they sowed.

...U mean the ones that haven't fallen out of windows, killed in Spain, or had their daughters blown up in cars?

Originally Posted by kpv1976

Learn to look from different angles.

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

I've noticed: kpv1974 does seem slightly to the left of centre in the political spectrum?!!

Well that gotta rise outta the bugger!

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by mapuc

..if Russia hadn't annexed Crimea and some other Oblast in Ukraine we would not have heard of Ukraine...hmm maybe one time per year in our European melody grand Prix.

It was if I remember correctly first after this in 2015 USA and UK started to train Ukrainian in Western Warfare and it was some general who in 2019-20 threw the Russian warfare doctrine out of the window and adopted the Western Warfare doctrine.
(This is what I have been told. I may have missed some part)

Markus

The beginning is taken from the time of the collapse of the USSR. Adventurers in Ukraine told the population this way - in 2 years Ukraine will become the "second France". And all our misfortunes are because the Russians spoiled everything for us. Because of them, we have such a low standard of living. If Ukraine did not feed Russia, then everything would be fine with them.
But let me - and who ruled the USSR?
Yes, the same Ukrainians!
Khrushchev is Ukrainian.
Brezhnev is also from Ukraine (if my memory serves me from Depropetrovsk).
Chernenko is also Ukrainian.
Andropov is that Jew.
Russians actually never ruled their state.
Stalin was a Georgian. Gorbachev is probably the only Russian, and he destroyed the USSR
)))
They simply forgot their history. They abandoned it.

[kpv1974]

>Don't forget Sewards folly, the Czar's sale of Alasksa and all those poor downtrodden enslaved Eskimos, Aleuts, and Umiaks to Ol Abe Lincoln. As for us being hypocritical complete moronic bastards, point well taken but then at least our mother sent us to charm school!

I hear this word all the time in American films. I did not think that this is such a strong curse that it can be voiced in films. I'm sorry.

[Skybird]

The most bizarr thing I have seen in a longer while.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by kpv1974

>Don't forget Sewards folly, the Czar's sale of Alaska and all those poor downtrodden enslaved Eskimos, Aleuts, and Umiaks to Ol Abe Lincoln. As for us being hypocritical complete moronic bastards, point well taken but then at least our mother sent us to charm school!

I hear this word all the time in American films. I did not think that this is such a strong curse that it can be voiced in films. I'm sorry.

Those are precode movies. Familiarize yourself with FAQs and avoid fellow member name calling in posts unless accompanied with a "" implying comradely humor. And quit wasting your remaing time in this forum; U should be out digging your shelter to avoid all those missiles shakin' your turf so close to the fighting front that you've mentioned.

[kpv1974]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Those are precode movies. Familiarize yourself with FAQs and avoid fellow member name calling in posts unless accompanied with a "" implying comradely humor. And quit wasting your remaing time in this forum; U should be out digging your shelter to avoid all those missiles shakin' your turf so close to the fighting front that you've mentioned.

Now the territory adjacent to the border of Ukraine is being shelled. Today there was a very long shelling. the city is well protected by air defense. After the missile was shot down right over the city, the military learned a good lesson from this.