Closed beta starting soon!

[Halcyon]

More feedback:

- I hit a u-boat with depth charges, and my lookout reported an oil slick, but the sub was still alive and operational. I'm no expert, but if the sub is leaking oil that means it has a hole in it. I don't see how it can remain at 100% combat effectiveness if there's oil floating on the surface

- was the submerged speed changed for u-boats? They still seem like they're going too fast and are able to dodge a depth charge drop almost every single time. It doesn't matter if I go at them head on or if I plan my approach and try to come at them from their stern. They will make a hard turn and I can never get the charges to land exactly on him (except for one time, which I already explained above...oil slick but no kill)

- to add on to the last point, my escorts also have the same trouble sinking a u-boat. I've heard them make depth charge run after run with the same results I usually have, which is not hitting the target or getting a report of oil and debris but the target isn't sunk. Are the u-boats invincible in this closed-beta build?

- the sonar indicator will go in the opposite direction of what you've set the circular arrow button on the right to be. I find I have to click that button twice to get the indicator to match the direction of what the button shows if you leave the sonar screen and come back, especially after contact has been lost (usually during a depth charge drop)

- I've seen the periscope briefly using the lookout station, but then it suddenly disappears even though the automated lookout is still calling out they can see a periscope feather. I point right at the bearing with binocs but still can't see it, even after shooting star shells. It seems to be a graphical glitch

- If you load starshells, sometimes you can't unload them or switch back to normal shells after firing a starshell burst

- Sometimes you can't unclick the "radar track" button for the gun if you previously clicked it but the sub submerged and you lost the track. This results in the player unable to manually rotate the gun turret

- When tracking a sub and you lose contact, if there is another sub nearby that an escort is tracking and giving you bearings for, that new sub will automatically switch to be the new target even though you're still maneuvering and trying to find the original target. This can result in the sonar snapping to the new target and making it harder to find where the cursor originally was to attempt to switch back to the old target to track it using the sonar

In all, combined with my first feedback report, I don't think this closed-beta build is ready for an early access release, especially if the u-boats are somehow set to be invulnerable.

[Onkel Neal]

That's good feedback

Originally Posted by Halcyon

More feedback:

- I hit a u-boat with depth charges, and my lookout reported an oil slick, but the sub was still alive and operational. I'm no expert, but if the sub is leaking oil that means it has a hole in it. I don't see how it can remain at 100% combat effectiveness if there's oil floating on the surface
[ ]

Historically, it was not unusual for a submarine to have a fuel leak, especially u-boats, as they used their ballast tanks as fuel tanks at times. The leak could be caused by damage, shipyard sabotage, or simply wear and tear. Only takes a small leak to leave a trail marking the boat's position.

- was the submerged speed changed for u-boats? They still seem like they're going too fast and are able to dodge a depth charge drop almost every single time. It doesn't matter if I go at them head on or if I plan my approach and try to come at them from their stern. They will make a hard turn and I can never get the charges to land exactly on him (except for one time, which I already explained above...oil slick but no kill)

They are tricky, and as a player, we have to trust the devs that their U-boat AI is legit. U-boats had severe limitations once submerged. But if the game limits the u-boats too much, it's not a challenge for the player. I know with Wolfpack, it's crucial to get this right.

- If you load starshells, sometimes you can't unload them or switch back to normal shells after firing a starshell burst

- Sometimes you can't unclick the "radar track" button for the gun if you previously clicked it but the sub submerged and you lost the track. This results in the player unable to manually rotate the gun turret

Same here. Looks like an area they will need to address. I also have hell when I am in Tactical and I go to change course or speed, half the time I end up reassigning Antler and Cat! The devs probably know this, but you are right to point it out.

- When tracking a sub and you lose contact, if there is another sub nearby that an escort is tracking and giving you bearings for, that new sub will automatically switch to be the new target even though you're still maneuvering and trying to find the original target. This can result in the sonar snapping to the new target and making it harder to find where the cursor originally was to attempt to switch back to the old target to track it using the sonar

Yes, it does get confusing, I'm thinking it would be great to have the DRT note the contact if it changes.

Also, would love to have the DRT retain the last one or two markings when switching from 1000 to 100.

In all, combined with my first feedback report, I don't think this closed-beta build is ready for an early access release, especially if the u-boats are somehow set to be invulnerable.

I think the version they release as EA will be improved over this closed beta version.
Also, the u-boats in the game always give away their position by being on the surface at the beginning of the game. Have you played a mission yet where they are quietly submerged and they torpedo a ship before you know they are there? Sounds like that should happen at the Hard difficulty setting... you get no indication other than possible hydrophone contact or scope visual detection -- IF you happen to be in the right place.

Thanks for the input, glad our notes compare.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Also, would love to have the DRT retain the last one or two markings when switching from 1000 to 100.

This would be a great feature. The last two marks would let the player still discern a course and speed before waiting for the next mark right before rapid maneuvers.

And about W,A,S,D, personally I would like the ability to move the ship wheel using A and D (instead of click and hold dragging) and W and S to make speed changes without having to confirm them. Sometimes I like doing direct control during the final moments right before a drop and finding the click spot for the wheel, waiting for it to highlight green, and then holding and dragging is sometimes tedious.

Originally Posted by Artur Salwarowski

I've been wondering about how to prioritize all of this. Do you think we could come up with a list together, so that we could have a clear picture of which bugs and problems the community sees as the most pressing and urgent? We could then attack those issues head-on, and not worry if we are focusing on the things or not. What o you think?

You could use Trello and have people vote on marked issues, or go a step further and have a shared Google excel sheet between the developers and the closed-beta testers so we can freely add issues and check on the progress of existing ones.

[Furia]

I have played around 6 hours so far in (4 one hour and 1 time a 2 hours scenario)

I have already sent my feedback form as requested.
From what I have read here, the developers are also encouraging us to provide feedback here so I will share it here as well.

I have been Betat tester in a number of simulations and games, Dangerous Waters among others and one thing I have learned is that the most useful support to provide to the developement team besides effectively identifying busg is "constructive criticism".

So since I wish the very best for this tittle and I am excited to finally having a "modern software" Destroyer Simulator I am going to share here my feedback as constructive criticism and I have to say that other than the points mentioned below, the product is great. Super stable (0 crashes and excellent performance) easy to install and anyone with Naval Sim experience would understand how to operate it easily although I hope they develop a manual at some point.

Those of you interested in my feedback, open the spoiler. It is a long text.

 

While the game shows the development team has studied in great details the subject, the actual game provides more a "dogfight sandbox" than a submarine hunting experience.
There is no time to manage defensive deployments or strategy, the submarines zero on the convoy at flank speed from minute one. The submarine behavior is unrealistic (all time flank speed, awesome torpedoes that never fail and sink ships at first impact, submarines that despite being hit by the 5 inch guns continue attacking ant flank speed and changing depth like an Akula Class...even with a destroyer closing fast at 500 yards the sub goes periscope depth, fires and never misses and in some cases manages to evade the attack)
The game details are really nice, the interface/stations are awesome and user friendly but as a veteran sub-hunter player from Destroyer Command or Dangerous Waters I was looking more into the strategy, search patters, defensive tactics and some combat after that. Probably the actual game play may attract young players but sadly for people like me after playing one hour I am already tired and demotivated. On the 1 hour scenario we get up to 5 enemy kamikaze subs that attack a convoy defended just by a destroyer and a corvette and for a few minutes an airplane. An unwinnable scenario. I have managed to sink up to 2 subs on one of these but on the meantime the other 3 subs rain havoc on the convoy.
The option for the "custom battle" does not work so far. Maybe this may help to define a more credible scenario but you need to give the option to place the sub farther away so the escorts have time to maneuver and deploy and to engage the sub farther away from the convoy. The sub AI logic although much better now than on early demos, still needs A LOT of work.
On this actual Beta sometimes I had 3 escort ships fighting 3 different subs just below the convoy in what it looked like a fur-ball.
The lookouts should warn much earlier about possible collisions, actually when they inform you about close merchants, you are about to collide and with almost no time for reaction.
The airplane call out ETA 15 minutes but shortly after it calls in station ready for tasking.

In one of the missions, the visibility was extremely low, I would say less than 300 meters, however that was not a problem for the subs to zero on the convoy at flank speed and sink ships with laser precision using the periscope while I could not even see the merchants.
One of the things I miss most is the possibility of using hydrophones. Obviously in the actual game dynamic there is not much "search" to do since you are hooked to the sub from minute 1. I would like to be able to use hydrophones.
Sometimes while on the bridge the horizon is shaking as if you are driving in a road with some bumps instead riding in a ship.
I do miss more "environmental" sounds like wind, change of ship noises when speeding up, some alarms like battle stations or collision alert...
The guns and depth charges sound weird and the guns even when hitting the sub appears to have not much effect. I would like to have the chance of using the 40mm anti aircraft mounts when close to the sub

All in all I think the game has great potential and I believe the development team has done an awesome job in documenting and replicating a Fletcher Class destroyer. The interfaces/stations are great. However I am afraid this is not a game where the usual hardcore (Submarine or Destroyer Command players) will enjoy for long but they may get frustrated or bored after a few hours due to the behavior of the AI subs and the kind of game-play that this generates and this concerns me because I have great expectations for this title but the actual "sub hunt" we can do, does not correspond with my expectations of how a sub should behave or how the game-play should develop. Maybe there are players that like this "dogfight fur-ball style"
I would be great if you could also add a way to additionally incorporate a game mode that has a more historical "tempo" that allows longer search and hunt experiences and that have more credible AI submarines that when detected and attack do not continue kamikaze towards the convoy. As you know, in the real live the actual main task of the destroyer was to keep the subs away from the convoy by forcing them to submerge or driving them away. Here I have only managed to do this one after inflicting sever damage to one sub including generating an oil slick, but usually submarines simply ignore the destroyer un unless they are sunk they manage to eliminate several merchants easily.
Great ship, great stations, awesome possibilities. Just need a realistic sub behavior and game-play and then you have a winner.
In any case thanks for bringing the Destroyers back to life.
I wish you all the best and success with the game.

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Furia

While the game shows the development team has studied in great details the subject, the actual game provides more a "dogfight sandbox" than a submarine hunting experience.
There is no time to manage defensive deployments or strategy, the submarines zero on the convoy at flank speed from minute one. The submarine behavior is unrealistic (all time flank speed, awesome torpedoes that never fail and sink ships at first impact, submarines that despite being hit by the 5 inch guns continue attacking ant flank speed and changing depth like an Akula Class...even with a destroyer closing fast at 500 yards the sub goes periscope depth, fires and never misses and in some cases manages to evade the attack)
The game details are really nice, the interface/stations are awesome and user friendly but as a veteran sub-hunter player from Destroyer Command or Dangerous Waters I was looking more into the strategy, search patters, defensive tactics and some combat after that. Probably the actual game play may attract young players but sadly for people like me after playing one hour I am already tired and demotivated. On the 1 hour scenario we get up to 5 enemy kamikaze subs that attack a convoy defended just by a destroyer and a corvette and for a few minutes an airplane. An unwinnable scenario. I have managed to sink up to 2 subs on one of these but on the meantime the other 3 subs rain havoc on the convoy.
The option for the "custom battle" does not work so far. Maybe this may help to define a more credible scenario but you need to give the option to place the sub farther away so the escorts have time to maneuver and deploy and to engage the sub farther away from the convoy. The sub AI logic although much better now than on early demos, still needs A LOT of work.
On this actual Beta sometimes I had 3 escort ships fighting 3 different subs just below the convoy in what it looked like a fur-ball.
The lookouts should warn much earlier about possible collisions, actually when they inform you about close merchants, you are about to collide and with almost no time for reaction.
The airplane call out ETA 15 minutes but shortly after it calls in station ready for tasking.

In one of the missions, the visibility was extremely low, I would say less than 300 meters, however that was not a problem for the subs to zero on the convoy at flank speed and sink ships with laser precision using the periscope while I could not even see the merchants.
One of the things I miss most is the possibility of using hydrophones. Obviously in the actual game dynamic there is not much "search" to do since you are hooked to the sub from minute 1. I would like to be able to use hydrophones.
Sometimes while on the bridge the horizon is shaking as if you are driving in a road with some bumps instead riding in a ship.
I do miss more "environmental" sounds like wind, change of ship noises when speeding up, some alarms like battle stations or collision alert...
The guns and depth charges sound weird and the guns even when hitting the sub appears to have not much effect. I would like to have the chance of using the 40mm anti aircraft mounts when close to the sub

All in all I think the game has great potential and I believe the development team has done an awesome job in documenting and replicating a Fletcher Class destroyer. The interfaces/stations are great. However I am afraid this is not a game where the usual hardcore (Submarine or Destroyer Command players) will enjoy for long but they may get frustrated or bored after a few hours due to the behavior of the AI subs and the kind of game-play that this generates and this concerns me because I have great expectations for this title but the actual "sub hunt" we can do, does not correspond with my expectations of how a sub should behave or how the game-play should develop. Maybe there are players that like this "dogfight fur-ball style"
I would be great if you could also add a way to additionally incorporate a game mode that has a more historical "tempo" that allows longer search and hunt experiences and that have more credible AI submarines that when detected and attack do not continue kamikaze towards the convoy. As you know, in the real live the actual main task of the destroyer was to keep the subs away from the convoy by forcing them to submerge or driving them away. Here I have only managed to do this one after inflicting sever damage to one sub including generating an oil slick, but usually submarines simply ignore the destroyer un unless they are sunk they manage to eliminate several merchants easily.
Great ship, great stations, awesome possibilities. Just need a realistic sub behavior and game-play and then you have a winner.
In any case thanks for bringing the Destroyers back to life.
I wish you all the best and success with the game.

I have to agree with the majority of this.

I also had missions where the fog was so thick I couldn't see 50 yards in front of my ship, but the subs have no visibility limitations regardless of the weather setting.
Their torpedoes also, as mentioned, have no % chance to be a dud. They always explode and I've never seen one miss.

I have also visually zeroed in on a periscope above the water, dropped my shallow pattern, and the sub is still shooting and firing at merchants while I'm circling around to pick him back up on sonar.

The 5" guns are also somewhat bugged. I can see the rounds zero in on the dot reticle, but after they "hit" the u-boat, there are 5 separate plumes of water that are stretched out from 20 yards in front of the u-boat to 20 yards behind it, as if my guns were all aiming at different points. I don't see them all hit on the convergence point, which is frustrating because I'm shooting a sub at 800 yards full broadside but my gunners are somehow missing both ahead and behind the target.

A couple times I've seen a large explosion and black smoke originate at the center of the u-boat, indicating a critical hit, but this was after 4-5 volleys at less then 1,000 yards.
The 5" gun accuracy just isn't there, and they act more like a deterrent to force the sub under than a weapon that can reliably sink the u-boat.

I've also noticed that the air cover says ETA 15 min but they're ready just a minute after that, and sometimes I never get air cover. Their support seems to be completely random.

[Onkel Neal]

I agree with you, good feedback, that should be really useful for the devs.

Originally Posted by Furia

I have played around 6 hours so far in (4 one hour and 1 time a 2 hours scenario)

The submarine behavior is unrealistic (all time flank speed, awesome torpedoes that never fail and sink ships at first impact, submarines that despite being hit by the 5 inch guns continue attacking at flank speed and changing depth like an Akula Class...even with a destroyer closing fast at 500 yards the sub goes periscope depth, fires and never misses and in some cases manages to evade the attack)

Yeah, I had the same questions. U-boats seem pretty quick and nimble. I understand that there may need to be tweaks to keep the game balanced. But players do need to feel they subs are playing by the rules.

Do the AI subs have the same limitations as the real ones? Are these limitations scaled for a three hour game (as they are in Wolfpack). How long is an hour of the game measured against real life? For example, a U-Boat could sprint at 6 knots or so for 45 mins. What should I expect this performance to be in the game?

Is it necessary for AI u-boats to raise their scope for ~30 seconds to prepare for a torpedo launch? I would think so.

The lookouts should warn much earlier about possible collisions, actually when they inform you about close merchants, you are about to collide and with almost no time for reaction.

Haha, yeah, 30 seconds would be nice

One of the things I miss most is the possibility of using hydrophones. Obviously in the actual game dynamic there is not much "search" to do since you are hooked to the sub from minute 1. I would like to be able to use hydrophones.

I'm assuming the hydrophones are part of th3e AI sonar operator's call outs, such as when he says, "Strong propeller noises", that also tells me the u-boat is sprinting.

Sometimes while on the bridge the horizon is shaking as if you are driving in a road with some bumps instead riding in a ship.
I do miss more "environmental" sounds like wind, change of ship noises when speeding up, some alarms like battle stations or collision alert...

Yeah, a little more of that.

All in all I think the game has great potential and I believe the development team has done an awesome job in documenting and replicating a Fletcher Class destroyer. The interfaces/stations are great. However I am afraid this is not a game where the usual hardcore (Submarine or Destroyer Command players) will enjoy for long but they may get frustrated or bored after a few hours due to the behavior of the AI subs and the kind of game-play that this generates and this concerns me because I have great expectations for this title but the actual "sub hunt" we can do, does not correspond with my expectations of how a sub should behave or how the game-play should develop. Maybe there are players that like this "dogfight fur-ball style"

I would be great if you could also add a way to additionally incorporate a game mode that has a more historical "tempo" that allows longer search and hunt experiences and that have more credible AI submarines that when detected and attack do not continue kamikaze towards the convoy. As you know, in the real live the actual main task of the destroyer was to keep the subs away from the convoy by forcing them to submerge or driving them away. Here I have only managed to do this one after inflicting sever damage to one sub including generating an oil slick, but usually submarines simply ignore the destroyer un unless they are sunk they manage to eliminate several merchants easily.
Great ship, great stations, awesome possibilities. Just need a realistic sub behavior and game-play and then you have a winner.
In any case thanks for bringing the Destroyers back to life.
I wish you all the best and success with the game.

That makes sense. We have to keep in mind, the game needs to appeal to a wide range of players to be successful. I think there should be exactly the type of missions optional as you described. Like a long-game AI option.

It might take 12 hours to complete the mission (guard against attack, react to attack, prosecute ASW, continue to tie sub down with more ASW, direct other DDs, allow the convoy to escape, destroy sub and/or when convoy is 30 km away, return to convoy.) but that's a great use of the Save Game feature. Imagine starting a game as the sun is going down, no radar contacts or maybe only one, but other than that, it's up to you to guess where the u-boats will approach. Make patrol loops, slow and search, then haul ass (don't want to be an easy target). React to an attack, work through the night, saving every couple hours, picking up where you left off every IRL day. Finally, the game sub starts coming up and you're safe! Epic battle that would give you a week of playing in real time.

[Rickster1]

Hi, i got the details to join the beta but have had covid so behind the 8 ball, where do you input the code, obviously iv had steam for years but i cannot work out where to input the code, or even if the beta is still playable. Thanks

[Halcyon]

Originally Posted by Rickster1

Hi, i got the details to join the beta but have had covid so behind the 8 ball, where do you input the code, obviously iv had steam for years but i cannot work out where to input the code, or even if the beta is still playable. Thanks

Games > Activate a product on steam

[Halcyon]

There is something really wrong with the victory conditions. I was running a small battle, had sunk 2 out of 3 u-boats and was converging on the 3rd with Antler and air support.

My lookout called a torpedo wake, and suddenly I get a cinematic of a u-boat shooting a torpedo and a merchant ship getting hit, followed by end of mission and the attached score screen.

How can the mission grade be "F" if I sank two u-boats and only one merchant was sunk?
Previous missions I've had up to three merchants sunk and the mission never ended.

I think the code for the scoring system has a bug in it, especially since the score screen says zero merchants were sunk.

*edit*
The game is completely frozen on this score screen. I can still bring up the ship wheel and speed windows with A,D/S,W, but no confirmation button or "X" to click to get rid of the score screen. I can still hear ocean sounds too, but everything else is paused. I had to Alt-F4 to quit the game.

*edit #2*
Another strange thing happened in this play session. I made successful drops on the same u-boat three times, and each time an oil slick appeared. That seems like an awful lot of damage without actually sinking the u-boat.

[Rebel]

in knowing how the dd does what it does will help me be a better sub capt