History Channel "the Atlantic Submarine War"

Puster Bill · 07-18-06, 11:01 AM

While there was only one documented instance of suvivors being killed in lifeboats, that isn't the same as sailors THINKING that they will be gunned down. I'm pretty sure that was a common fear amongst the merchant marine, mainly due to Allied propaganda.

NeonSamurai · 07-18-06, 12:01 PM

Ya thats the problem with revisionist history, one tends to make the enemy look as horrible and evil as possible, while brushing all the horrible and evil stuff the side that won did under the rug.

stabiz · 07-18-06, 12:18 PM

Winners write history.

Kruger · 07-18-06, 12:21 PM

Jah, sure, propaganda was fierce on both sides. But sailors knew very well that on the other side were...sailors like them. With mothers...fathers...daughters...wifes...girlfirend s...sisters and so on, with fears and wishes, with feelings. Naval warfare is an impersonal one...the human tragedies usually remain unknown. Ships fight each other, not men... In the torpedoroom, you don't hear the horror screams of those trapped between the decks, who were infortunate enough not to be killed by the first torpedo. On the bridge of a beautiful destroyer...who cuts the waves at full speed...you also don't see the diformed faces in terror of those drowned and crushed by your depth charges.

Roads88 · 07-18-06, 12:46 PM

I recall an article about "Muss" Mortan machine gunning some Sons of Nippon in the water. He is one of the U.S. Navy's most highly regarded WWII Sub commanders.

An body here think that anything would have been done if he had made it through the war.

Dutch · 07-18-06, 01:36 PM

Someone said earlier, winner write history.
This has very quickly degraded to a bach US post.

I have a great respect for ALL the soldier that participated in WW2, friends and foe. Wether thier tactics were right or wrong.

Lets actually contribute to this post and stop the stupid US bashing, because if truth be told, we don't give a **** about what you think of us, and there isn't much you can do to change that. So have a nice warm cup of stf*

Proud Member of the UNITED STATES ARMY.

***End Rant***

Kruger · 07-18-06, 01:45 PM

Yap...we are all here of various nations. If we learn from the past mistakes...maybe someday there will be no more wars.

Puster Bill · 07-21-06, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruger

Yap...we are all here of various nations. If we learn from the past mistakes...maybe someday there will be no more wars.

You know, nothing in the past 5,000 years of written history leads me to believe that this will some day come to pass. Sadly, there will be more wars (and some really bad ones) in the future.

It is inevitable.

The best we can hope for is that the 'Good Guys' win (or, at least the 'lesser of two evils'), and that they are over quickly.

P_Funk · 07-18-06, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Someone said earlier, winner write history.
This has very quickly degraded to a bach US post.

I have a great respect for ALL the soldier that participated in WW2, friends and foe. Wether thier tactics were right or wrong.

Lets actually contribute to this post and stop the stupid US bashing, because if truth be told, we don't give a **** about what you think of us, and there isn't much you can do to change that. So have a nice warm cup of stf*

Proud Member of the UNITED STATES ARMY.

***End Rant***

Yes what a lovely way to even things out man. "That not fair, you guys are mean, I DONT GIVE A FU*K WHAT YOU THINK! I'm also a soldier so whatever you say thats critical of my nation is personallyoffensive no matter how valid it is. Thank you for being so understanding."

Why is it that you're a soldier matters? And if you dont care what "we" think about you why do you care if we are critical of the US? And talking about how the Germans are portrayed on modern TV and Movies in the US is part of the thread's subject. If that means being critical of your nation it isn't unsubstantiated "bashing". It's called critical analysis. The US isn't perfect. Nor is Britain or Germany. Hell Canada (my home btw) is definately suspect about alot of stuff. I'm a proud Canadian but I also know we made Napalm and Agent Orange for the US during Vietnam and are thus by connection responsible for alot of death and suffering. And don't try and say that we're disrespecting the soldiers of the war by being critical of what they did or did not do. That's just called history, you know talking about what happened and who dunnit. Plus if you are interested in respecting the memories of all the soldiers regardless of nationality then the way the Germans are portrayed in your country and others ought to be right up your alley. SO what I'm saying is don't accuse us of anything. It just sounds petty. And if anything reinforces the stereotype of arrogant and ignorant Americans.

So here's my personal addition to this thread. I believe it was Winston Churchill who said during WW2 that "I intend to write history".

Rose · 07-18-06, 11:15 PM

I am American, but I believe Dutch has entered the wrong thread, as I do not see one ounce of "US-bashing." We are instead talking about how all navies of the Second World War committed their share of inexcusable atrocities -- the US included. We are also talking about how modern documentaries unfairly portray the Kriegsmarine.

Now that Dutch knows what we're talking about, lets get back to the subject.

07-18-06, 11:01 AM	#1
Puster Bill Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: BA8758, or FN33eh for my fellow hams. Posts: 833 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	While there was only one documented instance of suvivors being killed in lifeboats, that isn't the same as sailors THINKING that they will be gunned down. I'm pretty sure that was a common fear amongst the merchant marine, mainly due to Allied propaganda. __________________ The U-Boat Commander of Love

07-18-06, 12:01 PM	#2
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Ya thats the problem with revisionist history, one tends to make the enemy look as horrible and evil as possible, while brushing all the horrible and evil stuff the side that won did under the rug. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

07-18-06, 12:46 PM	#5
Roads88 Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sacramento CA. Posts: 150 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I recall an article about "Muss" Mortan machine gunning some Sons of Nippon in the water. He is one of the U.S. Navy's most highly regarded WWII Sub commanders. An body here think that anything would have been done if he had made it through the war. __________________ It's useless for sheep to pass resolution after resolution in support of vegetarianism, while wolves maintain a separate opinion.---Unknown Author.

07-18-06, 01:36 PM	#6
Dutch Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: United States Posts: 376 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Someone said earlier, winner write history. This has very quickly degraded to a bach US post. I have a great respect for ALL the soldier that participated in WW2, friends and foe. Wether thier tactics were right or wrong. Lets actually contribute to this post and stop the stupid US bashing, because if truth be told, we don't give a **** about what you think of us, and there isn't much you can do to change that. So have a nice warm cup of stf* Proud Member of the UNITED STATES ARMY. *End Rant* __________________ \"Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You, Ask What You Can Do For Your Country.\" President John F. Kennedy

07-18-06, 12:18 PM	#3
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	Winners write history.

07-18-06, 12:21 PM	#4
Kruger Commander Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 476 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Jah, sure, propaganda was fierce on both sides. But sailors knew very well that on the other side were...sailors like them. With mothers...fathers...daughters...wifes...girlfirend s...sisters and so on, with fears and wishes, with feelings. Naval warfare is an impersonal one...the human tragedies usually remain unknown. Ships fight each other, not men... In the torpedoroom, you don't hear the horror screams of those trapped between the decks, who were infortunate enough not to be killed by the first torpedo. On the bridge of a beautiful destroyer...who cuts the waves at full speed...you also don't see the diformed faces in terror of those drowned and crushed by your depth charges.

07-18-06, 01:45 PM	#7
Kruger Commander Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 476 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Yap...we are all here of various nations. If we learn from the past mistakes...maybe someday there will be no more wars.

07-18-06, 11:15 PM	#10
Rose Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 966 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I am American, but I believe Dutch has entered the wrong thread, as I do not see one ounce of "US-bashing." We are instead talking about how all navies of the Second World War committed their share of inexcusable atrocities -- the US included. We are also talking about how modern documentaries unfairly portray the Kriegsmarine. Now that Dutch knows what we're talking about, lets get back to the subject.