First gangs, now Nazis into the army?

NeonSamurai · 07-15-06, 03:55 PM

This will also become a major issue for law enforcement as these gang members and other extremests will have better training (and likely equipment) then the police forces in general, and also represents a serious danger to SWAT teams who are the ones called out to deal with such people. Having suspects with training at least on par with SWAT training will meen alot more casualties for SWAT teams in the future. Also this creates the possibility of more military hardware being stolen by these gangs and extremist groups. Not just assault rifles (which lets face it are fairly easy to aquire and modify to full auto fire) but machine guns, anti tank rockets, plastic explosives, stinger missles, etc.

Honestly i think the US Military needs to wake up and see the threat. But right now they are ignoring it due to their large need for recruits for present military involvement, so they take almost anyone who meets the physical requirements. They realy need to start doing background checks, and stronger psychological profiling. People with psychological problems, associations with violent groups and orginisations, or with a criminal record (particularly anything violent) should be instantly rejected. Any existing military members who also fail to meet the above requirements should be immediatly discharged.

It wont stop the problem, but at least it will slow it down some.

blue3golf · 07-15-06, 04:07 PM

Everyone joining the military now days has a background check done on them, this "tech check" taking about 3 days. Criminal records are looked at extensively, not just convictions but charges as well. Certain combinations or even single incidents depending on the law violation determines the enlistment elgibility. There really is no way to check what kind of groups someone has been associated with unless its by tattoos which are also checked or if it comes up in the background check. As with anything else there are ways to beat the system. The checks are there, it all depends on what shows up on them and how much a recruiter will ignore just to make quota.

August · 07-15-06, 04:39 PM

It's also nothing new. The original motorcycle gangs of the 50's were primarily made up of veterans from the 40's. The gangsters of prohibition had more than their share of WW1 vets. Many of the outlaw gangs of our old west were civil war vets. Just about every outlaw group in American history had its share of ex soldiers.

I would venture to say it is similar with european and other nationalities as well.

Ducimus · 07-15-06, 05:03 PM

US Army has been lowering recruting standards in order to meet their recruting quota's. They're now taking people they never would have a few years ago.

Couple articles i could find:
http://www.slate.com/id/2127487/
http://www.slate.com/id/2133908/

NeonSamurai · 07-15-06, 05:08 PM

Yes that is true, however most of those individuals historicly, were "normal" civilians first, joined the military, fought a war and came back either screwed up, or with nothing left, and then got involved in criminal activities/gangs.

In this case, gang members and others are activly going out there and joining the military with the intent of learning their training, methods and tactics, then coming back to their criminal group and teaching the group what the person learned. Another issue is previously the millitary didnt realy focus on urban close combat, its only now that they are training in depth this sort of warfare, which is perfect for gang members, and other extremists, because they are almost garanteed to be fighting in such an environment. Can you imagine militarily trained gangs running around in large cities with modern military footsolider hardware?

We are already seeing the effects (ie criminals running around in body armor and assault rifles shooting up banks and police). Now imagine if these guys had real tactical training...

Dust · 07-15-06, 06:08 PM

heat

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/

great streetbattle!

Skybird · 07-15-06, 06:58 PM

Yep, the movie started boring, and then after over an hour when everything is peaceful and according to plan - all of a sudden and completely out of the blue one of the most intense and heavy combat scenes I have ever seen in a movie burst onto the screen and flattens every audience there is in zero time. Awesome dramaturgy, very well done in these sequences. Ein Kracher!

bradclark1 · 07-15-06, 07:09 PM

When I joined the army in 1973 the army was filled with people given this choice. "Join the army and the charges will be dropped or go to jail". Maybe it's happening again to some extent. The armed forces are sucking in recruitment goals. As far as the gang members joining the army so they can teach their fellow gangsters is a stretch I think. Why put yourself in harms way in Afganistan or Iraq to learn fighting when you can more easily just hire vets or mercs to train them. Why risk gettting killed?
I think armed gangs taking over the country is better left to the movies.
One must also think about job opportunities for these people. Who would hire them? I wouldn't. Punks can't get a job, join the armed forces.
As far as graffiti and soldiers, thats been around for thousands of years. Remember "Kilroy was here"? That was a long time ago, now it's "The Crips were here" or insert your gang/group of choice. Nothing to get upset about. Probably get more of a beat on things by reading the s#!t-house walls. I think it's all just a bunch of statistics and the media is trying to make news again.

sonar732 · 07-15-06, 09:10 PM

I concur with the "military or jail" premise. I had a few shipmates in my boot camp late '95 who were given this choice.

Skybird · 07-16-06, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

When I joined the army in 1973 the army was filled with people given this choice. "Join the army and the charges will be dropped or go to jail". Maybe it's happening again to some extent. The armed forces are sucking in recruitment goals. As far as the gang members joining the army so they can teach their fellow gangsters is a stretch I think. Why put yourself in harms way in Afganistan or Iraq to learn fighting when you can more easily just hire vets or mercs to train them. Why risk gettting killed?
I think armed gangs taking over the country is better left to the movies.
One must also think about job opportunities for these people. Who would hire them? I wouldn't. Punks can't get a job, join the armed forces.
As far as graffiti and soldiers, thats been around for thousands of years. Remember "Kilroy was here"? That was a long time ago, now it's "The Crips were here" or insert your gang/group of choice. Nothing to get upset about. Probably get more of a beat on things by reading the s#!t-house walls. I think it's all just a bunch of statistics and the media is trying to make news again.

I think you got it wrong a bit. It is not about taking over the country (maybe for those racist Nazo mobs, but not for oridnary crimninal gangs). When a gang is saving one of it'S members from street acion to give it a "cleaner" background and smaller or unimportant criminal record, then send it to the army for let'S say folur years, then this is more about getting their own structors trained indeed. I wanted to post another article too which I had red two or three months ago, but I did not find it again. It was about LA and that the polcie there already has noticed that rivalling gangs are using more dicipline and tactics both when they clash with each other, or when the commit an assault on a store. I assume that this phenomenon of 2more competent street gangsters" is not limited to LA. - What I also do not understand is why even identified Nazi leaders and racists extremists are tolerated, even if they got identified within units. Unfortunately, there seem to be indications that Nazis grow in numbers in European armies as well. Some months ago we hd some minor scandal in Germany when it became known that one or two highranking bundeswehrs officers openly joined a festivity of a wellknown extreme rightwing organisation, in uniform. Hm, let's say it was a year ago, not just some months. - Damn Hitler. After Muhammad unfortunately the most influential figure of world history.

07-15-06, 03:55 PM	#1
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	This will also become a major issue for law enforcement as these gang members and other extremests will have better training (and likely equipment) then the police forces in general, and also represents a serious danger to SWAT teams who are the ones called out to deal with such people. Having suspects with training at least on par with SWAT training will meen alot more casualties for SWAT teams in the future. Also this creates the possibility of more military hardware being stolen by these gangs and extremist groups. Not just assault rifles (which lets face it are fairly easy to aquire and modify to full auto fire) but machine guns, anti tank rockets, plastic explosives, stinger missles, etc. Honestly i think the US Military needs to wake up and see the threat. But right now they are ignoring it due to their large need for recruits for present military involvement, so they take almost anyone who meets the physical requirements. They realy need to start doing background checks, and stronger psychological profiling. People with psychological problems, associations with violent groups and orginisations, or with a criminal record (particularly anything violent) should be instantly rejected. Any existing military members who also fail to meet the above requirements should be immediatly discharged. It wont stop the problem, but at least it will slow it down some. __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

07-15-06, 04:39 PM	#3
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,214 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's also nothing new. The original motorcycle gangs of the 50's were primarily made up of veterans from the 40's. The gangsters of prohibition had more than their share of WW1 vets. Many of the outlaw gangs of our old west were civil war vets. Just about every outlaw group in American history had its share of ex soldiers. I would venture to say it is similar with european and other nationalities as well. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

07-15-06, 05:03 PM	#4
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	US Army has been lowering recruting standards in order to meet their recruting quota's. They're now taking people they never would have a few years ago. Couple articles i could find: http://www.slate.com/id/2127487/ http://www.slate.com/id/2133908/ Last edited by Ducimus; 07-15-06 at 05:06 PM.

07-15-06, 05:08 PM	#5
NeonSamurai Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Socialist Republic of Kanadia Posts: 3,044 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Yes that is true, however most of those individuals historicly, were "normal" civilians first, joined the military, fought a war and came back either screwed up, or with nothing left, and then got involved in criminal activities/gangs. In this case, gang members and others are activly going out there and joining the military with the intent of learning their training, methods and tactics, then coming back to their criminal group and teaching the group what the person learned. Another issue is previously the millitary didnt realy focus on urban close combat, its only now that they are training in depth this sort of warfare, which is perfect for gang members, and other extremists, because they are almost garanteed to be fighting in such an environment. Can you imagine militarily trained gangs running around in large cities with modern military footsolider hardware? We are already seeing the effects (ie criminals running around in body armor and assault rifles shooting up banks and police). Now imagine if these guys had real tactical training... __________________ SH3 Newbie Guide Links and other helpfull stuff

07-15-06, 06:58 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,655 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yep, the movie started boring, and then after over an hour when everything is peaceful and according to plan - all of a sudden and completely out of the blue one of the most intense and heavy combat scenes I have ever seen in a movie burst onto the screen and flattens every audience there is in zero time. Awesome dramaturgy, very well done in these sequences. Ein Kracher! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-15-06, 04:07 PM	#2
blue3golf Weps Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 352 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Everyone joining the military now days has a background check done on them, this "tech check" taking about 3 days. Criminal records are looked at extensively, not just convictions but charges as well. Certain combinations or even single incidents depending on the law violation determines the enlistment elgibility. There really is no way to check what kind of groups someone has been associated with unless its by tattoos which are also checked or if it comes up in the background check. As with anything else there are ways to beat the system. The checks are there, it all depends on what shows up on them and how much a recruiter will ignore just to make quota.

07-15-06, 06:08 PM	#6
Dust Torpedoman Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 114 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	heat http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113277/ great streetbattle!

07-15-06, 07:09 PM	#8
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	When I joined the army in 1973 the army was filled with people given this choice. "Join the army and the charges will be dropped or go to jail". Maybe it's happening again to some extent. The armed forces are sucking in recruitment goals. As far as the gang members joining the army so they can teach their fellow gangsters is a stretch I think. Why put yourself in harms way in Afganistan or Iraq to learn fighting when you can more easily just hire vets or mercs to train them. Why risk gettting killed? I think armed gangs taking over the country is better left to the movies. One must also think about job opportunities for these people. Who would hire them? I wouldn't. Punks can't get a job, join the armed forces. As far as graffiti and soldiers, thats been around for thousands of years. Remember "Kilroy was here"? That was a long time ago, now it's "The Crips were here" or insert your gang/group of choice. Nothing to get upset about. Probably get more of a beat on things by reading the s#!t-house walls. I think it's all just a bunch of statistics and the media is trying to make news again. Last edited by bradclark1; 07-15-06 at 07:11 PM.

07-15-06, 09:10 PM	#9
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I concur with the "military or jail" premise. I had a few shipmates in my boot camp late '95 who were given this choice.