Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I heard on the news just now Putin is offering to stop the invasion immediately if the Ukrainian govt will pledge never to seek NATO membership and to accept the loss of Crimea and Donbas.

Christ, take the deal, it's giving up something you've already lost to avoid losing everything, which is a certainty.

I think I would take that deal as set out by you but I believe one condition not mentioned is the requirement to 'de-nazyfication' (or whichever way it should be spelled) meaning the resignation of Zelensky and the government.

[Jimbuna]

The UN has told the BBC that the number of refugees fleeing the war in Ukraine has passed two million.

People are fleeing the north-eastern city of Sumy, and Irpin, near Kyiv, after ceasefires were agreed to allow civilians to escape.

However, Ukrainian officials say Russia is shelling an evacuation route from the besieged southern city of Mariupol.

In the past few days, several evacuation plans have collapsed amid continued Russian attacks.

UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace says Russian troops have not progressed as they hoped and are now "getting more desperate"

Shell says it will immediately stop all spot purchases of Russian crude oil following criticism.

The Russian deputy PM has warned that Moscow could retaliate against European sanctions by cutting off natural gas to the bloc.

[Jimbuna]

Why do the words 'Hypocrisy and Taiwan' immediately spring to mind?

Chinese President Xi Jinping has described the situation in Ukraine as worrying and called for "maximum restraint".

He made the comments during a virtual meeting with French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Chinese state broadcaster CCTV reports.

Xi said the priority should be preventing the situation in Ukraine from spinning out of control, and said the three countries should jointly support peace talks between Russia and Ukraine.

China and Russia currently enjoy a close diplomatic relationship and Beijing has neither condemned nor condoned the action against Ukraine. However China did abstain from a UN Security Council vote condemning the invasion.

[Jimbuna]

Ukraine has called for sanctions to be expanded to include a ban on Russian oil exports.

But if an oil ban were to go ahead, Russia has warned it could cut off gas supplies to other countries.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58888451

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Now I know why people bought toilet paper like crazy two years ago. They planned to pay their debts with sheets of toilet paper. Evil wicked banks however did not accept it.

[Jimbuna]

It will take decades for the Russians to regain their credibility and other countries trust in them if ever at all.

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I heard on the news just now Putin is offering to stop the invasion immediately if the Ukrainian govt will pledge never to seek NATO membership and to accept the loss of Crimea and Donbas.

Christ, take the deal, it's giving up something you've already lost to avoid losing everything, which is a certainty.

déjà vu i.e., the 1938 Munich agreement.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

It will take decades for the Russians to regain their credibility and other countries trust in them if ever at all.

Fa rmore relevant is the quesiton how long it will take the Ukrainians to rebuilt their country, and whether or not the barbarians attacking them will ever pay reparations. Of course, we know it already, they will not.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I heard on the news just now Putin is offering to stop the invasion immediately if the Ukrainian govt will pledge never to seek NATO membership and to accept the loss of Crimea and Donbas.

Christ, take the deal, it's giving up something you've already lost to avoid losing everything, which is a certainty.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Selenskyj has shown himself willing to hold talks on the status of the separatist areas in the east of the country and the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea annexed by Russia. Speaking to U.S. broadcaster ABC on Monday evening (local time), Selenskyj at the same time made clear that he would not respond to demands from Moscow to recognize the independence of the self-proclaimed "people's republics" as well as Russian rule over Crimea. "I am ready for dialogue. But we are not ready for surrender."
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung

[...] the Ukrainian president said, "We can discuss and find a compromise on how these territories can continue." He said it is important to pay attention to how the people there who want to be part of Ukraine are doing. It is a much more complicated issue than just recognition, he said. "This is another ultimatum, and we do not recognize ultimatums."
Selenskyj again called on Russian President Vladimir Putin for direct negotiations. "What President Putin needs to do is to start a conversation, a dialogue, instead of continuing to live in an information bubble without oxygen." Selensky conceded that Russia has air sovereignty over Ukraine. He again called for a no-fly zone. The point, he said, was to prevent missile strikes on civilian facilities.
With regard to NATO, Selensky expressed disappointment. He said the alliance is not ready to accept Ukraine as a member. "The alliance is afraid of controversial issues and a confrontation with Russia." He hinted at refraining from joining. Ukraine is not a country on its knees begging for anything, he said. Since a constitutional amendment in 2019, NATO accession has been the former Soviet republic's stated goal.
Die Welt


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[Skybird]

This is a Ukrainian slource on how Russia changes the demography in Crimea and in the Donbass.



https://uacrisis.org/en/massive-russ...ed-territories


Two weeks ago I linked a result from the Ukrainian census 2001 or 2002, it showed that back then only the Crimean had a real majority of people speaking Russian (58%). Already both in the Donbass and Luhansk regions they had no such majprity anymore. - Well, twenty years ago.



However, that people speak Ukrainians does not mean they are pro-Russian, also many are bi-lingual, speak both languages. Russia has failed to motivate Russian speaking Ukrainians for revolting against Kyiv and joing the invaders. Most Russian speakers, an overwhelming majoity of them, voluntarily fight against the Russian attackers.


I mean from the language spoken you cannot automatically conclude on the nationality that is preferred.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Fa rmore relevant is the quesiton how long it will take the Ukrainians to rebuilt their country, and whether or not the barbarians attacking them will ever pay reparations. Of course, we know it already, they will not.

To quote an often used UK saying...."You've more chance of getting bitten on your bottom than that ever happening"

[Skybird]

And again the Russians shell the "humanitarian corridor" at Mariupol, letting the evacuation and escape of civilians collapse for the repeated time.

[Otto Harkaman]

Ukraine War: The 40 mile Convoy is Worse Than You Think

[Jimbuna]

Less than thirty minutes ago.