Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Let everybody be warned of the Germans. I would not trust them at all, and when they claim 1 + 1 is 2, I would check the calculation twice and three times.

And German guy lectures us without even a hint of irony

[mapuc]

Let's cut right to the chase here: are we witnessing the prelude to World War 3?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60485766

Markus

[Skybird]

So how does the German chancellor view these interrelationships? Is his view appropriate? Doubts are reasonable. And they are now being voiced. And from the ranks of his own coalition. In his press conference after the visit to Putin, Scholz said that Putin's genocide accusation was "false." He said no more. In response to a question from an American senator at the Munich Security Conference, Scholz called Putin's "genocide" accusation: "Ridiculous."

Scholz also scoffed at Putin's historical "unity" article: "Putin has acted as a historian and written texts." Strange: Olaf Scholz deliberately does not want to deal with Putin's motives, his understanding of identity and his historical justifications. Why?

Scholz himself says: "If we were to take him at his word, that would not allow us to look optimistically into the future. I refuse to do that."

In other words, Scholz refuses to take Putin seriously on this point because it would then cloud his optimism. Seriously now? What if Putin is serious about everything: about invading, about "genocide," about Russia's unity across existing state borders?

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

https://www.focus.de/politik/ausland..._56583708.html


Scholz always is absent, even when he stands there and makes some noise with his mouth. He always is totally disconnected form the reality around him, appears apathic, seems to be completely uninterested, you do not so much see him for himself, but you are aware of him only by that where he should be there is just kind of a hole that covers the background behind it. And because you cannot see that part of the backgroudn your relaise that there should be something in the foreground - just that you cannot see that thing in the foreground. A misty cloud that moves and changes form all the time, never takes clear contour and shape and form, mad eof highly polsiehd Teflon particles so that nothign cna stiock to it, nothign can be seen in it, nothing can be interpreted into it. Pure nothingness. In interviews he often ignores the quesiton and babbles down a prepared text, and when being asked again he repeats that text more or less and when being pressed a third time, he repeats that text. There is no link between what he says and what he is, and the reality we others live in. His way of speaking is lame, sedating, boring, monotonous.


He is very strange, there is something about him that triggers all my instinctive alarm sensors. I call him bubble-Olaf because he seems to live in his own alternate reality all the time. Even if he is here he is not really here. Very alienating figure. Even his own party does not really like him.

[Rockstar]

https://www.nytimespost.com/germany-...a-ukraine-row/

…Katja Hoyer, an Anglo-German historian and journalist, said “rifts in the alliance were there for all to see”.

Writing for the Washington Post, she said: “Seen in that light, Biden’s in his news conference that a ‘minor incursion’ into Ukraine by the Russians would meet with a different response from NATO compared with a full-on invasion suggests that Washington and Berlin have been discussing how to handle minimal German support for economic sanctions.

“Rifts in the alliance were there for all to see.”

She said Germany had become “a weak link in NATO’s line of defence”.

Ukraine is a new Belt Road hub for that German Chinese alliance announced in the Chinese State run newspaper Global Times. However this hub would completely bypass Russia, and it appears Putin wants a piece of the pie too.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by sublynx

I agree. Kagan's analysis seems very much like one possible scenario. If Putin acts ruthlessly enough he might discover NATO paralysed by lack of political will.

He's already discovered that! As I've stated earlier in this thread We need to be at DEFCON two and remove our useless ambaßador from Moscow...and find another SEC of State that ain't Blinkin', n' or n'. Moreover on 60 Minutes this weekend past, the President of Ukraine admitted that Ukraine's giving up its third largest nuclear arsenal was a mistake...I wonder what remaining plums: Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia are contemplating at this juncture Our best hope is that Mr Putin Age 69, dies...shortly w/o a legacy!

[Jimbuna]

Putin has gone ‘full tonto’ over actions in Ukraine - Ben Wallace

UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has said the Russian president has made the mistake of having no allies in his actions, comparing him to Tsar Nicholas I during the Crimean War.

Mr Wallace, a former Scots Guards officer in the Army, claimed Vladimir Putin had gone "full tonto" over actions ordering troops into Ukraine.

Russia's Ministry of Defence has hit back at Mr Wallace's comments.

According to the RIA Novosti news agency, spokesman Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov said: "We recommend that British servicemen study well not only the geography of Russia, but also its history, in order not to enrich our common military history with their lives to please poorly educated British politicians."

The Crimean War was fought mainly in the Crimean peninsula between 1853 and 1856 between Russia and an alliance between the British, French and Ottomans.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-60496122

I reckon this politician should be reminded he is no longer a member of the British army.

[August]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I reckon this politician should be reminded he is no longer a member of the British army.

According to the RIA Novosti news agency, spokesman Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov said: "We recommend that British servicemen study well not only the geography of Russia, but also its history, in order not to enrich our common military history with their lives to please poorly educated British politicians.

"

Absolute Zero Ice Burn!

[mapuc]

I've tried to find an Article in English. It has been in the news here-They showed a video clip of a train with many tanks and armoured vehicle on its way eastward-To the front.

The only article I have is this translated Danish article

Trains with military hardware were seen running towards the front line between Ukraine and the separatist-controlled regions on Wednesday afternoon.

Ekstra Paper's correspondent observed two trains with armored vehicles and some tanks, respectively.

Military personnel were also seen in connection with the two trains carrying the equipment in the direction of the front line in the Luhansk region, which is partly controlled by the Russian-backed separatists

https://ekstrabladet-dk.translate.go..._x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

[Skybird]

If - and that means: "if" - Russia attacks all Ukraine and conquers it, then a huge part of the Russian army is concentrated in that territory -. and suddenly shares borders with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary. And Putin already has made claim for owning all former Sovjet vasalls, too.

If he plays totally crazy horse and goes all in (which I doubt, but we cannot be certain of anything anymore, he has executed all comfortable certainties we based on in the past 30 years), and strikes in the Baltic region, too, I do not see that NATO, with or without the US, could defend or later retake the three small Baltic states without the use uf nukes. Which the US would not use for three small Baltic states, no doubt.

The big bulwark in the east must be Poland.

I wonder how the logistical background of the Russian army now is, after the many reforms and modernizations of theirs. I expect it to be fundamentally improved compared to the 1990s, but I know nothing about their logistcs systema and status nowadays.


And the US now launch sanctions against NS2 and related companies and directors that had been held back in the past months and year. Either the US does this now because Berlin had alreayd put the certification process on a temporary halt (thats how German media interpret it), or the Americans have realised that the announced German freeze indeed is no end but just a delay to NS2 and so they use the opportunity to hammer the penultimate nails into the coffin of NS2 (I could no longer criticise them for that like I still did one year ago).

[mapuc]

^ This is what I tried to get an answer The day the entire Ukraine is occupied. Will the Russian(Putin) stop there or will they continue into Poland and/or the Baltic states ?

And this

Ukraine has declared a state of emergency for 30 days, from midnight tonight.

The bill was approved by Ukraine's parliament just now. It introduces personal document checks and gives the government power to impose a curfew if needed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

We probably must consider ourselves still lucky that it is Biden sitting in the White House currently. .

That must be sarcasm....

...it's worth noting that Putin invades Ukraine when Biden, not Trump, is in office.

Originally Posted by Skybird

If - and that means: "if" - Russia attacks all Ukraine and conquers it, then a huge part of the Russian army is concentrated in that territory -. and suddenly shares borders with Poland, Slovakia, Hungary. And Putin already has made claim for owning all former Sovjet vasalls, too.

If he plays totally crazy horse and goes all in (which I doubt, but we cannot be certain of anything anymore, he has executed all comfortable certainties we based on in the past 30 years), and strikes in the Baltic region, too, I do not see that NATO, with or without the US, could defend or later retake the three small Baltic states without the use of nukes. Which the US would not use for three small Baltic states, no doubt.

Wouldn't be so sure. If Russia attacks any NATO Member, it's war. Where the nukes come into play? Well, I'm sure they are in the plan somewhere, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^ This is what I tried to get an answer The day the entire Ukraine is occupied. Will the Russian(Putin) stop there or will they continue into Poland and/or the Baltic states ? [...]Markus

Their forces are concentrated around Ukraine, while a contingent is of course in Belarus.. close to Poland.
If NATO could push for Leningrad full conventionally it would take Putin by surprise.

Same surprise if NATO decided to accept Ukraine for defense against Russia next week.
Would Putin risk a nuclear war over Ukraine? I guess not.

[mapuc]

That was a good question.

How would different US-President have acted.

How would Reagan(if he was the President today) have acted if Russia invaded Ukraine ?

How would Trump(If he was the President today)have acted of Russia invaded Ukraine ?

How would JFK..... ?

Markus

[Catfish]

^ no doubt about JFK or Reagan.

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

That must be sarcasm....

Skybird and sarcastic? Are you being sarcastic?

...it's worth noting that Putin invades Ukraine when Biden, not Trump, is in office.

It will be interesting what can be found out by the courts about Trump, i hear they are in full swing.
Trump would not even have initiated sanctions, maybe some congratulation on twitter.

(quoting myself from this morning)
Trump:
“I said, ‘This is genius,'” [...] “Putin declared a big portion of … Ukraine … as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. … I said, ‘How smart is that?’ And he’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper. That’s strongest peace force. … We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep the peace all right. Here’s a guy who’s very savvy … I know him very well. Very, very well.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...asion-1311025/

https://www.rawstory.com/mike-pompeo-2656771461/


Or, how Tim Rowland wrote:
"Truth? Who cares about that? Truth is so 1992.
You want to win in this country, you gotta do two things: You gotta lie and you gotta be nuts. Maybe we could even invade Ukraine before Putin does. Perfect."

And to be true: Maybe this, or going for Leningrad. War it will be anyway.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

That must be sarcasm....

...it's worth noting that Putin invades Ukraine when Biden, not Trump, is in office.

Have you taken note of the Donald's recent brilliant comments on the issue short time ago? I linked it somewhere. Nothing but praise for Putin he gave.

I do not say its good that Biden commands the US in this. I only meant there was a chance that the US would be commanded by an even worse "commander".

Even if he already does not recall it anymore, Biden is, like Putin, a child of the cold war thinking and playing. He learned and experienced and knows how the cold war game is played and what the rules are. Donny does not.


Lets not be mistaken, that Putin now goes tough is not becasue ther eis Bidne in place, he has prapred this many years in advance. all hius thinling finds its expression and culmination in what he now does. He has been about this since 15 years or so. And obviously raging bull Trump had no braking effect on it, evenm if his fans claim so.



Putin's history lessons and world view may or may not sound weired in Western ears (as always there are at least some grains of truth in them...). But we better start taking him by these his words. He means them. He always has.