[REL] Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, full release

[Rock Storm]

I stumbled over the FotrS-Mod and reinstalled silent hunter again.
First of all: Great Work, the difficullty feels just about right, for serious Kaleuning.

But before starting a fourth Campaign, i would like to ask some things.

First: Yes i have read all the instructions about installing and deleting save folders and everything.

I always started in Pearl Harbor with a GAR Submarine.
Then i transfer to Brisbane as soon as possible, to get new missions (locations) and to get the Balao a month earlier.

-In my first campaign i got the Balao around March 43, was able to start a new mission, but the boat doesnt work well.

-In my second campaign, I, again, got the offer for a Balao to early (In April 43). I then declined and in the spring of 44 I was pissed, that I never got a second offer.

-In my present campaign I declined again, because again to early, and in the next patrol the fuel stayed at 99, and the Batteries holded an eternety, and took also very long to recharge.
Tried another patrol and the same fuel/batteries problem.
I have checked the settings in game and also in the campaign folder:


[Current]
LimitedBatteries=true
LimitedCompressedAir=true
LimitedO2=true
LimitedFuel=true
RealisticRepairTime=true
ManualTargetingSystem=true
NoMapUpdate=false
RealisticSensors=true
DudTorpedoes=true
RealisticReload=true
NoEventCamera=false
NoExternalView=true
NoStabilizeView=true
MPShowPlayerNames=true
MPShowTorpedoes=true

[MiscSettings]
CurrentNation=American
MeasurementUnits=metric

I need to end this war!
Any suggestions, anybody?

[propbeanie]

First of all, FotRSU is very liberal with fuel usage - or would that be "conservative"?? The boats are "super-efficient" in their nmpg figures. The batteries however should not be like that. Do you "shell-out" to Windows, accidentally (Windows Update interrupting, etc) or purposefully (inet email, etc) while playing? That can contribute to issues. Probably though, much as we have attempted to prevent the early issuance of "new" boats as "rewards" for high scores, the game will NOT cooperate. You should NOT be offered the Balao before 3rd June of 1943 (which is actually "early") at Brisbane. It is active 21 May, 1943 at San Francisco for New Construction. While we do have missions that are active with "NULL", which would be the date of the Brisbane base activation, the game still "chokes" on early boats in that there is some equipment on submarines that is not active. In that regard, we did "open" the dates for all things "Balao" to also be "NULL, NULL", but something is stuck in the game's craw from what we can surmise. It does NOT like early boats. There is one more trick up our sleeves that we'll try after the next version comes out, but I am not holding my breath for success there either...

As far as not being offered a new boat again, all I can surmise there is that you had a couple of bad patrols in a row that knocked your patrol rating down - which is different from the "Renown" score. The game's "math" in that regard is wonky, and hidden behind the cloak of invisibility. The Balao should be available on the Fall of 1943 start, if you have the Preview version. If not, wait a few days, and we might have Christmas a little early this year, although we were supposed to be "Thankful" back in mid November... - Anyway, final touches are being applied, waiting on the finish coat to to be applied and dry, and we hope to roll it out shortly. It should be even more stable than previous versions.

[Rock Storm]

Ave Maestro


No i never shell out or do anything besides gaming. Coming from SH3 i am used to the ... vulneberalty of the game.

I have read the "of refits, new commands..." files. Superb assembly of usefull stuff with the mod, btw.
I tried to get back to port as soon as I had like 50.000 tons and the first mission completed, to get the balao as soon as possible.
Ok, so the game might regard it as a not so good patrol.
Btw. What is a new conningtower, or how is it presented?
Is it the point where you can choose a 20mm front and dual 4 inch back or vice versa?
I get the first new command after 3-4 Patrols from gar to gato. Is one not likely to get a new boat too soon?

Do you think it might be a problem, that i save when entering port and then start the promotion-bingo with loading again and again till the mechanic gets a mechanic special ability and i dont have three medics.?

P.S. From the submarine availability chart:
Brisbane 1942-04-15, 1945-01-31
--------
Sboat=NULL, 1943-06-01
Balao=1943-06-03, 1943-11-12

So its the american calendar third of june, right?

[Mad Mardigan]

Originally Posted by Rock Storm

Ave Maestro


No i never shell out or do anything besides gaming. Coming from SH3 i am used to the ... vulneberalty of the game.

I have read the "of refits, new commands..." files. Superb assembly of usefull stuff with the mod, btw.
I tried to get back to port as soon as I had like 50.000 tons and the first mission completed, to get the balao as soon as possible.
Ok, so the game might regard it as a not so good patrol.
Btw. What is a new conningtower, or how is it presented?
Is it the point where you can choose a 20mm front and dual 4 inch back or vice versa?
I get the first new command after 3-4 Patrols from gar to gato. Is one not likely to get a new boat too soon?

Do you think it might be a problem, that i save when entering port and then start the promotion-bingo with loading again and again till the mechanic gets a mechanic special ability and i dont have three medics.?

Best to do a save, BEFORE pulling into port... at least... hmmm.... 50 nm's (at minimum... 75 to 100, tops... ) from even beginning to get near base... ensuring that there are NO ships/planes in the area, before saving... & at best... 5 minutes out of high TC useage... & that same amount of time after, before exiting... if you need to back out for any reason...



M. M.

[Rock Storm]

Ah. Ok.

I allways made a first save before entering port, like i have read in one of the documentations, BUT not with the 5 Min pause after hammering down the australian coast with 4096.

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Rock Storm

Ave Maestro


No i never shell out or do anything besides gaming. Coming from SH3 i am used to the ... vulneberalty of the game.
'''

There is no better, more descriptive way to say that about the SH series...

With that, 50k is a good patrol, especially with a completed Objective. So that is not the issue. Shelling-out is not the issue. So we'll lay it to the boat and it being issued "early"... As for the conning tower, if you "qualify" for a new boat, you also qualify for the new conning tower, as Ducimus described in that pdf we included. What you get offered is just a matter of the timeframe it is offered. But if there is a new boat available, the game defers to that. The initial Balao offereing at San Fran (and Brisbane if early) is a Measure 9 (black) boat, but it does have the "cut" conning tower. There is basically no difference between the first and second conning towers for the boat, other than the fact that the game - again, for whatever reason - does NOT change the texture until the conning tower changes - usally. We have another experimentation idea for the future, but again, might be a waste of time and effort, so I will not publish my crazy idea, but it involves attempting to circumvent the "normal" conning tower upgrade "process". The idea, again, most likely will result in a "Nope, doesn't work either" outcome, but we'll find out later.

In the meantime, As far as most boats go, if we tell them to mount a 16" triple turret, or even the Yamato 18.1" turret on a submarine node, the game will gladly oblige. So we can mount the 20mm double and 40mm just fine on either of the sails that boat is assigned. I do not recall off the top of my head their dates of availability, but those are the only restrictions on them. The same holds for the dual deck guns. It's only by date, and you'll see the dual 4" & 20mm combos offered first, then the dual 4s, then the dual 5 & 20, then the dual 5 inchers. It's all just a matter of time and the amount of renown you have as to whether you can "purchase" them or not.

Now, radar is an oddball bird of a different feather and flock... The Balao is fine, but some of the boats have conning towers that have different mounts for their radars (why??). The first conn used (bathtub) will use an "unsupported" shaft radar antenna, where a structure on the conning tower holds the radar shaft in place, and then the next version of the conn (first cut-down) goes to a "supported" shaft, where the radar itself provides the structure to hold it in place, and then the 3rd conn (full cut-down) goes back to the unsupported shaft. Sometimes, in spite of the mis-match, the shaft will install but the radar does not function correctly, if at all. Other times, it just crashes things. There is seemingly no rhyme nor reason to what things will do sometimes. You do have to have the proper pieces in place for the next piece to fit properly.

Wow - too much coffee here... but yes, Saving in the terminal is not recommended if you are on the boat. I don't know if it's a function of the game, or if the terminals in FotRSU are too busy. Probably a bit of each. This was one reason behind the green circles as you come into your home port. It signifies when you can expect to start seeing an impact on your TC as assets "spawn" in the terminal. The closer in you get, the more it happens. The red circle is about where you will be asked if you want to terminate your patrol, or re-supply. I Save one last time when getting close to the green circle, so that I have (hopefully) a good Save to go back to if an "upgrade" fails, or I don't like it. Once I'm docked, I will go through the awards & promotions in the office. Now, you should be OK to Save again in the office, if that's what you are talking about... ??

[Bubblehead1980]

Hey guys, I want to make sure not duplicating any work here.

I am working on making the ability to conduct night surface attacks in a realistic and historically accurate manner, as I did in TMO, a possibility in FOTRS. Wanted to check with the team and make sure not already working on that lol.

[propbeanie]

I don't know if you remember this, KM, but Bubblehead1980 might also be interested:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

...
Back to this... I have done untold tests, crashing the game more than not, while trying to find a definitive answer. The result? I still don't know anything definitive, but I am a bit closer.

Initially, I had 36 lines in a text file, but I had little typed text and more numbers on lines with carraige returns to show the lines. The orders page scrolled fine, and had a "gutter" to scroll the page back and forth. As I added text to the file though, I had to keep cutting down on the number of lines. Notice that the first line starts with a <Tab> character, and has 55 other characters on the line. A "normal" line of text is 60 characters. However, you cannot always fill a line, since it is most likely a "total character" count that determines the limit. I still can't decide whether a new line is worth 2 characters (the two pipe characters), or four characters (carraige return and new line character). I am almost certain though that CR/NL is a Windows type of character, whereas the game just uses CR only... maybe... ??

It seems that the "character" limit is actually about 954, but I am not 100% certain of that. In the image below, I have 951 characters, but that includes 2 "pipe" characters to start each paragraph. Notice also that the last sentence is not complete. Each of the double pipes I added for the paragraphs required that I delete other characters.

Orders test file image

 

The text of course, is non-sensical, and I never did get close to the intended 1024 stated in that text, or even 1000... I arrived at 952 as the number, since it is divisible by 8, of which 8 bytes is the "standard" character size, and I crashed the game at 960. I am certain that EOF and carraige returns influence the character count, but notice that even with removing the double pipes for the carraige returns to start a new paragraph does NOT allow for very many more typed characters...

As of this time then, I would say that anything over 950 characters is suspect, depending upon how many CR there are in the file... sigh.

Edit: btw, I will do more testing, with more Objectives, which would add more lines to the bottom of the file. The question of course being "will that influence the total character count of the orders themselves?"... more late.

New List:

 

DavaoGulfEarly04
Extract Philippines 01
Extract Philippines 02
Extract Philippines 05
Gar2Mariannas
Insert Palau Island 02
Insert Palau Island 04
Insertion Commando Philippines 04
Insertion Corregidor Supplies
Insertion Spy BismarckSea 03
Insertion Spy Philippines 03
Insertion Spy Philippines 04
Insertion Spy Philippines 05
Insertion Spy Philippines 06
Lifeguard Corregidor VIP
Patrol Marshalls Early 02
Photo Leyte Invasion 01
SeaTrialHP_04

These are the files with greater than 950 characters after "MissionBriefing=" in the tsr file. I do know that at least half of these do indeed work properly from testing. However, they will still be edited for that just-in-case scenario. Also, four other files had already been edited today, as well as others over the last few weeks. Those would include SOJ missions in 1943 out of Pearl, which were previously tested and functional, but have been edited to comply with being less than 951 characters.

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

yes, i concur.
i was assigned another mission that died at the start and when i checked the mission briefing it was over 1k. so i edited to less than 1024 characters and reloaded the mission and it still bombed. so i edited it down under 900 (IIRC) and only then did the mission start.

I am not sure how to 'calculate' this anymore. I have found a 2nd mission in the next release that fails due to "verbosity", although both missions are under 950 characters... I thought I had it yesterday with it being due to the size of the words and where they land in the line of 50 characters across the page. The game will not hyphenate words, so if you use a word of say 16 characters but only have 15 left on the line, then if falls to the next line, and you basically "lose" those 15 blank characters on the line. OK, got that... We had also figured that there was a maximum of 20 lines on the page, and if you look at the "Spoiler" image above, that's what it has, not counting the Objective synopsis at the end. There apparently must also be a blank line between the body of text and that closing Objective Synopsis... so 18 lines to be "safe"... but wait, if the synopsis isn't much of a synopsis and takes two lines, then you are now hitting 17 lines for the body... I had an "order set" of 842 characters taking up 16 lines fail a few minutes ago... made it 840, and it ran fine... Now I am leaving extra space, figuring 17 lines x 50 characters equals 850, which is a figure we had some up with before... but that "Tab" to start the orders text, which we thought that was one character, is apparently five "space" characters... so 845 characters - plus the wasted white space... Do you know how difficult it is to describe a SpecOp mission with three Objectives in 840 characters or less, not using very big words so as to not waste line space?... especially for ~me~?... needless to say, we're going back through some of the suspect files and trying to do test "layouts" in a text editor to be able to accurately count lines, until I can figure-out a 010 script to do my character, word, and line counting for me recursively...

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Hey guys, I want to make sure not duplicating any work here.

I am working on making the ability to conduct night surface attacks in a realistic and historically accurate manner, as I did in TMO, a possibility in FOTRS. Wanted to check with the team and make sure not already working on that lol.

No, we do not have plans for that as part of the mod at this time. All previous attempts that have been successful for the player to do night surface attacks result in a failure of surface battles at distance, and or planes' failure to attack. On the back burner for the time being, so have at it. Another thing to fix would be the shadows not cast by the moon... lol - I have a really pretty screen grab of the west coast of Negros Island in the Philippines, coming east toward shore in the sub, with the moon clipping the horizon beyond a hill, yet the moonlight is reflecting all the way from the shore, lighting my way to the landing zone...

[KaleunMarco]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I don't know if you remember this, KM, but Bubblehead1980 might also be interested:

Yes, i do remember the long descriptions issue. It caused some interesting by-products.

you know, i never did offer to help with this issue. if you want, i can help you craft some of the long TSR messages/files.

if you want some help, send me a PM and we can collaborate.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by propbeanie

I don't know if you remember this, KM, but Bubblehead1980 might also be interested:


I am not sure how to 'calculate' this anymore. I have found a 2nd mission in the next release that fails due to "verbosity", although both missions are under 950 characters... I thought I had it yesterday with it being due to the size of the words and where they land in the line of 50 characters across the page. The game will not hyphenate words, so if you use a word of say 16 characters but only have 15 left on the line, then if falls to the next line, and you basically "lose" those 15 blank characters on the line. OK, got that... We had also figured that there was a maximum of 20 lines on the page, and if you look at the "Spoiler" image above, that's what it has, not counting the Objective synopsis at the end. There apparently must also be a blank line between the body of text and that closing Objective Synopsis... so 18 lines to be "safe"... but wait, if the synopsis isn't much of a synopsis and takes two lines, then you are now hitting 17 lines for the body... I had an "order set" of 842 characters taking up 16 lines fail a few minutes ago... made it 840, and it ran fine... Now I am leaving extra space, figuring 17 lines x 50 characters equals 850, which is a figure we had some up with before... but that "Tab" to start the orders text, which we thought that was one character, is apparently five "space" characters... so 845 characters - plus the wasted white space... Do you know how difficult it is to describe a SpecOp mission with three Objectives in 840 characters or less, not using very big words so as to not waste line space?... especially for ~me~?... needless to say, we're going back through some of the suspect files and trying to do test "layouts" in a text editor to be able to accurately count lines, until I can figure-out a 010 script to do my character, word, and line counting for me recursively...


No, we do not have plans for that as part of the mod at this time. All previous attempts that have been successful for the player to do night surface attacks result in a failure of surface battles at distance, and or planes' failure to attack. On the back burner for the time being, so have at it. Another thing to fix would be the shadows not cast by the moon... lol - I have a really pretty screen grab of the west coast of Negros Island in the Philippines, coming east toward shore in the sub, with the moon clipping the horizon beyond a hill, yet the moonlight is reflecting all the way from the shore, lighting my way to the landing zone...

Does the character limit in missions include all sections such as objectives, messages triggered etc or just the mission briefing? as in say 1000 characters for all of them combined or ?

[Jeff-Groves]

"until I can figure-out a 010 script to do my character, word, and line counting for me recursively"


Do you mean to have 010 scan and check all the files and report or 1 file at time not auto changing folders?

[propbeanie]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Does the character limit in missions include all sections such as objectives, messages triggered etc or just the mission briefing? as in say 1000 characters for all of them combined or ?

Mostly... The Objective synopsis seem to be limited to two lines each, but thus far, I have not hit a limit on the number of Objectives. That page scrolls. The same with the photo missions "Photos" page. It scrolls fine and can hold at least twelve pictures. I try to keep all "labels" as one word, maybe using an underscore for separation. I don't trust the game to misinterpret a "space" in a name. But near as I can tell, you are only limited in the mission orders, and only as they display when you are in the Captain's Office at home port, getting ready to go on patrol, since that page does NOT have a scroll gutter. It makes it a bit tough on the Narwhal / Nautilus missions that often had three initial objectives on their orders, oftentimes rather complex in nature. What I have done with several missions is break the orders into two parts, with an overview in the office orders, and then use the Timer with a few minutes or couple of hours max set to display some details via a radio message. The radio message page can scroll, and is better for that.

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

"until I can figure-out a 010 script to do my character, word, and line counting for me recursively"


Do you mean to have 010 scan and check all the files and report or 1 file at time not auto changing folders?

Yes, exactly. I also have a time of it doing "calculations" with what I have found... the logic of trying to figure-out which words will be on the next line is giving me a headache. It's been entirely too long since my C days... sorry, bad pun... Anyway, it might be easier if I used VB to build a small app, since I do know how to recursively open files there, and I am more familiar with string functions and RegEx there... I just need a running character counter per line, a running line count and something to throw an error with flashing lights and sirens when several set conditions are hit, such as 20 lines of text, or over 848 characters. I also want it to throw a "Danger Will Robinson" warning when 17 lines of text are hit, or 840 characters used. Nothin' to it. It sure would have been nice of Ubisoft to supply some documentation on this type of stuff...

[Rock Storm]

Picturesk: https://ibb.co/sVq5zJQ


Sorry, i was kinda busy.
This must be this:
"That happens when you play with the big guys"
(Ise Battleship)

1st Patrol of new Campaign. After a fourth attempt yesterday. Played it really nice and cool. On search course never always between 256 and 512.
Around 80.000 BRT and three Torps left. And then in the morning, cause i wanted to finish the patrol, electric breakdown in tha hood.

But i had a save after the first four sunken ships.
And then: Huge Task Force, i mean huuuge:
-A Kongo BB, The allready mensioned Ise, An escort Carrier, Two heavy Cruisers, and some Light Cruiser and...

Ok, we have trained for this...
I was from the point of detection in front of the japs. Then we started to dance South, 195, 185. Ninty degrees, tourned with Back Slow with the first Destroyer to give him no...silhouette.
Torps prepared 8-9 feet below keel for the big girls, sea was caaaalm 0 Meter Wind per second light fog and full darkness has just set in. Everything is perfect.

First the escort carrier first torp 1 degree against the running direction and the second 1 degree in front. They (Mark 14 never dud on influence setting) hitted front and rear. Cause the carrier cant speed up very fast, now that i think bout it.

Second the Kongo BB first torp on zero degrees, second plus 2, third plus 4.
All three went up midship from the middle to the start of the first third of the ship. Huge explosions...
We hit it, she is taking water. Thank you Officer Obvious.

Periscope always "swimmy", but know it didnt need a rocket scientist to know where the yankees are camping. And shots from all around.
Then we and the destroyers played our little games.

And now: Flank ahead around through the night. Again in Front. When they were kinda resorting themselves in the middle of nowhere. The Carrier was dripping deep in the front and was just standing, as all the others were dancing around him. Head on, 1.400 Meters another one to the keel. And as they were firering me down. I gave him another one, since i expected him to blow up instantly but there was nothing to hear. Another one with the big boom. And as i tryed to evade me out of ****. There was this Ise BB at my rear. Last three hecktorps. 0, +2, +4, but the Captain didnt accelerate, so the first hitted midships, the last in the very front, and the second between.

Another dance with the DDs and they let the Ise sail on its own.
Ok, lets try 6.500 Meters. Sea still 0 Meter per Second. But allready daytime. The shots where hitting below waterline, and the next one up to the middle of the tower. And another one over the ship, calm seas?
So i hardly hitted with half of my around 105 AP Shells, and then with my ca. 65 remaining explosive shells. Good, why not try to scratch them with the .50Cal. AP at least. Following up to 5.200 Meters had im on 23 degrees, no way to turn the flak further. Since i had no glue where my shots are landing, i shot, and switched to the uzo and as my bullets rained in, they were out of sight, no glue where they were landing. But first it seemed exectly when the disappeared there was simultanious fire starting all over the ship. And i thought: How epic is that all the fires which were allready burning inside now have got air. Like a very ripe grape.
Then i realised that those bastards are firing back.
Not even making 4 Konts but whistling "La Paloma".

Back in port i insisted in keeping the holes, cause then we seem really badass. But that wouldnt work because of insurance issues.
THIS IS WAR, he has said!

P.S. 77% Hull damage, i ve made it home.

[Jeff-Groves]

Just looking at Stock tsr files I'm not seeing line breaks and such.
So my thought is something in the menu_1024_768.ini is limiting lines?
Since the text is placed over an image, there's probably a control line to say how many letters can be on a line. It would go by width settings of course is my guess.

[propbeanie]

@ Rock Storm: Sounds like you are having fun! Continue skipper!

@ Jeff-Groves: Yes, menu_1024_768.ini, and I am tempted to attempt to add a scroll gutter, but... there is probably a reason they left that off. Only one way to find out though! lol - The Stock game uses very generic mission orders, that might be four lines long. With the copies of RL orders I have, a person would need a notepad, legal-sized, to hold the orders and charts they carried, sometimes in sealed envelopes "Not to be opened until on-site", initially with only a "lat/long" location to go to. The Narwhal and Nautilus were often tasked with 3 and 4 objectives, half of which might be cancelled enroute, and replaced with other objective locations, due to countering Japanese movements, or the capture of guerrilla groups. We're trying to get as much "authenticity" in to that roughly 850 characters the game allows. But the limit on characters does not appear to be set in stone, and is a function, as you say, of the "window" size for the "paper", and is a combination of lines, words, characters & line breaks (my opinion). As in an earlier post, if I put one character and a carriage return (using the keyboard) on each of 20 lines, they all display fine. I can add more characters to each line, but when I hit roughly 742 characters, I have to drop a line. That trend continues all of the way up the page. The more characters, the fewer lines allowed. It seems the more you fill a line with up to 60 characters, the fewer lines allowed, but as I mentioned, I did have a "short" orders text that bombed, most likely due to my use of double "pipes" for a forced carriage return to separate sections of text for Objectives A, B & C. The game did not like that. Removed 2 characters, and it was fine. When I removed the double "pipes" and went with singles separating the sections, it was fine. My guess is that the "pipe" character is worth the whole line of 60 characters. There is no other explanation - in my mind. anyway... strange stuff, this game...