[WIP] Wolves of the Kaiser:1914-1918 Mod

[Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

More images later.

Can't wait to see more updates, Sir

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Lastly I have relented and will probably model a few more famous liners...I am thinking of "Mauretania", "Britannic", "Arabic", and maybe "Laurentic" &c. The idea is special souvenirs will be awarded for sinking certain legendary ships (as long as they are not serving as hospital ships or diplomat ships).

Do you want to add them in the main mod, or as mini mods for future packs ?

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt

Can't wait to see more updates, Sir



Do you want to add them in the main mod, or as mini mods for future packs ?

I'm thinking main mod. If I do an expansion pack for WOTK in the coming years it will probably be one of these things:

-Surface combat, 1914-1918

-Austro-Hungarian subs

-Allied Submarines

I hope you guys find these interesting! Any surface combat mod will be for small units - WWI MTB's, trawlers, & destroyers. No plans for playable big ships - SH4 does independent small-vessel combat well but simply cannot simulate battleship, and big-gun ship actions properly in my opinion:

-No accurate gunnery ranges
-Dodgy behavior of ship fleets
-No complex gunnery factors (smoke, fire control computer brand, etc)
-No ability to delegate various flotilla tasks
-Poor surface to surface combat AI - ships always fighting to the death, for example

Also...BB's/CA captain's role in WWI was often something like an orchestra musician.....you were rigorously trained to perform a well-defined part within a big "orchestra" of ships...This makes for dull play, unless you want to abandon historical accuracy and have a "Jutland" every mission.

The sub commander/independent small warship commander, to continue the music analogy, is kind of like a Jazz freestyler, who generally had 100% control over how he conducts tactical operations. Making for action-packed and historically accurate campaigns.

Games like SES Jutland get around this by letting you jump from battle to battle around the British Isles as the commander on scene, and there is just no way to approximate this campaign dynamic within the realm of SH4.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Haha I look forward to it (running without the modern things). The limited number of torpedoes, I take it means a lot of deck gun actions. I take it in most cases one torpedo will be enough to sink most ships?

That is great, I would love to incorporate the blood spatter into my TMO Update at some point, if able.


Below is a link for the AA guns converted to deck guns. Really is great to have, Battle Surface is a lot of fun and a lot more realistic now that all guns fire at once. Esp once have 40 MM and multiple 20 MM. I am sure you are familiar enough with workings of SH 4 to see what I did in .sim file to the AA guns, but if not, will explain. I hope at some point to make them separate deck guns from the main deck gun because right now, they are linked when AA guns are set as deck guns. So when order open fire, if they are manned, they will fire. Would like to have them act independently of another another, so could engage two targets at once.


https://www.mediafire.com/file/qz0lc...Radio.zip/file

Thanks! Downloading.

One torpedo will sink most ships. Here are my thoughts - feel free to comment (?)

Modern Battleships/Battlecruisers: 3-4 torpedoes max
Large Liners/Merchants/Cruisers: 2
Large Old Warships: 1-2
Medium/Small Merchants & Escorts: 1

You will also have demolition parties in rowboats (already successfully implemented; just need to dust off the old files...lol.) Their top speed will be extremely slow so you can't cheat and use them on warships ... will also change zones.cfg and make all warships invincible to them.

I am thinking 2-4 demolition parties max per patrol? If anyone knows how many scuttling charges were carried, please chime in.

Shots of demolition parties & unit torpedo hit/fire fx below. Final versions will be better. Also throwaway shots of work from Britannic before I stopped - hope to restart her soon. Apologize for anyone who has seen the screens before; they are old ones. The submarine models, crew, boats, and cargo ship are all VERY OLD + outdated - all replaced or scheduled to be replaced.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

Thanks! Downloading.

One torpedo will sink most ships. Here are my thoughts - feel free to comment (?)

Modern Battleships/Battlecruisers: 3-4 torpedoes max
Large Liners/Merchants/Cruisers: 2
Large Old Warships: 1-2
Medium/Small Merchants & Escorts: 1

You will also have demolition parties in rowboats (already successfully implemented; just need to dust off the old files...lol.) Their top speed will be extremely slow so you can't cheat and use them on warships ... will also change zones.cfg and make all warships invincible to them.

I am thinking 2-4 demolition parties max per patrol? If anyone knows how many scuttling charges were carried, please chime in.

Shots of demolition parties & unit torpedo hit/fire fx below. Final versions will be better. Also throwaway shots of work from Britannic before I stopped - hope to restart her soon. Apologize for anyone who has seen the screens before; they are old ones. The submarine models, crew, boats, and cargo ship are all VERY OLD + outdated - all replaced or scheduled to be replaced.

You're welcome , really is great having the AI fire AI guns at surface vessels, game changer for sure.


"One torpedo will sink most ships. Here are my thoughts - feel free to comment (?)

Modern Battleships/Battlecruisers: 3-4 torpedoes max
Large Liners/Merchants/Cruisers: 2
Large Old Warships: 1-2
Medium/Small Merchants & Escorts: 1"


The numbers sound reasonable, I will admit my knowledge of WW I era battleships and torpedoes is not up to say WW II era but perhaps more torpedoes or four minimum needed to bring down a battleship.

What is the damage model on ships? standard SH 4 or have you done some adjustment/major changes ?

I have implemented longer sinking times mod by bilge rat into TMO, still tweaking it a bit to get results before I decide to go with it in next release, but overall its great, brings a lot more realism to the sinking of vessels.


Oh man the demo parties., that is amazing and what a unique addition . Would love to know how that was created lol Suppose it will be useful again say a damaged ship to save torpedoes? Look forward to trying it them out sometime.

[iambecomelife]

The demolition party creation was a lot less impressive than it looks - I simply took a torpedo, made the original model invisible, reduced max depth, and butchered the speed to like 3-4 knots max. Then attach various "child" .obj files via nodes in S3ditor and you're in business.

The hardest part was I didn't realize the 3d model for one torpedo (Mk XIV I think?) is hard coded - I kept wondering why my 3d changes never showed up and was tearing my hair out until I stumbled onto that fact in another modder's completely unrelated subsim post!

The only problem is it uses up one torpedo variant slot in-game, because the maximum number of different torpedo types is hard-coded. But there are still enough different torpedo models to have, in addition to the demo-parties, multiple types of 45cm and 50cm torpedoes, plus one or 2 British types for enemy units.

I guess another problem is you don't get an animation of the crew climbing on board, placing the charges, placing the wiring, rescuing the ship's cat, ransacking the cabins for souvenirs, stealing a sandwich from the mess, climbing back into the boat, etc etc.


And there are huge changes to ship damage and sinking time! Zones.cfg has been great to use & pretty intuitive so far - I have created many new compartments for the mod's ships.

[Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

-Surface combat, 1914-1918

-Austro-Hungarian subs

-Allied Submarines

All of them are so fascinating, however the one that intrigues me most is the K.u.K. fleet.
It's always put a little in background, respect to their German counterpart; however it played an important role in the First Mediterranean Campaign.

Seeing what you wrote, I think you are not interested to add, once the main mod is complete: Black and Baltic campaigns or more subs ( B and E types, C-II, D type, and types 17/43/57/93/151). What a pity, but this is your work, not ours and I'll always support every decision you'll take about it.

Go ahead Captain

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

I hope you guys find these interesting! Any surface combat mod will be for small units - WWI MTB's, trawlers, & destroyers. No plans for playable big ships

Would be also included the commerce raiders Möwe and Wolf?

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Kapitain Oliver Leinkraunt

All of them are so fascinating, however the one that intrigues me most is the K.u.K. fleet.
It's always put a little in background, respect to their German counterpart; however it played an important role in the First Mediterranean Campaign.

Seeing what you wrote, I think you are not interested to add, once the main mod is complete: Black and Baltic campaigns or more subs ( B and E types, C-II, D type, and types 17/43/57/93/151). What a pity, but this is your work, not ours and I'll always support every decision you'll take about it.

Go ahead Captain



Would be also included the commerce raiders Möwe and Wolf?

I think there could be grounds for making an exception & including Mowe & Wolf - since the style of gameplay for surface raiders is basically similar to submarines (independent ship combat at relatively close range, in patrol format). That's a good point.

[rod_oil]

Originally Posted by iambecomelife

I guess another problem is you don't get an animation of the crew climbing on board, placing the charges, placing the wiring, rescuing the ship's cat, ransacking the cabins for souvenirs, stealing a sandwich from the mess, climbing back into the boat, etc etc.

Sir, I think it's a perfect subject for stand-alone 3D-shooter

[Aktungbby]

rod_oil! after an 11 year 'silent run!'

[Panzer_Schultz]

Hello everyone!

@ Iambecomelife:
Regarding your question of the demolition charges I found some passages in two books, that give an indication of the number of charges aboard and the numbers used for the ships.
First the book “Kein Engländer soll das Boot betreten!“ from Florian Huber. It is about the wreck of UC 71 and included is the diary of a mechanic of the boat.
Here are the two entries from the Diary that state the number of munitions:
3rd Patrol 28.03.1917-13.04.1917: 4 Torpedoes, 18 Mines, 73 Sprenggranaten (I suppose those are the Sprengpatronen = Demolition charges) and 300 rounds 8,8cm Shells.


6th Patrol 12.06.1917 – 17.06.1917: 5 Torpedoes, 0 Mines, 200 rounds 8,8cm, 70 Sprengpatronen (A new Captain was assigned to the uboat and thus the first mission would be in the Hoofden or the Westcoast to get accustomed to the boat and thus I suppose no mines were loaded.)


Also some entries that show how much one vessel needed to sink. Though it must be noticed, that the BRT of ships were often overestimated in the night in torpedo-attacks (some numbers I checked on uboat.net and saw the discrepancy). Also interesting is the fact that many ubat captains fired only one torpedo at a target; I have seen that in other sources as well.


11x8,8cm for 600BRT Sailing vessel (Schooner with two masts)
4x Demolition charge for 3000BRT Steamer
50x8,8cm for 3500BRT Steamer
1xTorp for 3000BRT Steamer
1xTorp for 4000BRT Steamer
4x Demolition charge for 5890BRT Steamer (did not sink and needed a further torpedo as the weather was too bad for demolition charges)
1x Demolition charge for fishing vessel
2x Demolition charge for 177BRT Sailing vessel (Schooner with two masts)
1xTorp for 839BRT Steamer (In the diary is noted 4000BRT, the correct number is from Uboat.net
1xTorp for 5576BRT Tanker
1xTorp for 4000BRT Steamer
30-35x8,8cm for 2,833BRT Steamer (loaded iron ore, 15 direct hits according to Uboat.net
5x Demolition charge for 2400BRT Steamer


It seems the number of charges was increased from 4 to 5 at some point, maybe they saw that 4 often weren’t enough?


The second book is “Der Handelskrieg mit U-booten” by Arno Spindler:
It features a passage about two smaller vessels one with 500BRT and one with 900 BRT were sunk with one demolition charge.



Here also the captains mostly fire only one torpedo at a target and wait for the outcome.

Also some time ago you said you would be interested in torpedo-data and if I could send you what I have. Did you receive it or did it get lost?


Would you be interested in a “Marinequadratkarte”? It features the german naval map which the navy used in ww1 with the unique numbering system of the squares.

Thanks for making this awesome mod!

Best regards
P.S. I would love the addition of Möwe and Wolf, though I wonder how would the disguising part work? To my knowledge the ships mimicked some of their victims?

[Aktungbby]

Panzer_Schultz! good 2 C U on the surface after a decade's 'silent run'!

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Panzer_Schultz

Hello everyone!

@ Iambecomelife:
Regarding your question of the demolition charges I found some passages in two books, that give an indication of the number of charges aboard and the numbers used for the ships.
First the book “Kein Engländer soll das Boot betreten!“ from Florian Huber. It is about the wreck of UC 71 and included is the diary of a mechanic of the boat.
Here are the two entries from the Diary that state the number of munitions:
3rd Patrol 28.03.1917-13.04.1917: 4 Torpedoes, 18 Mines, 73 Sprenggranaten (I suppose those are the Sprengpatronen = Demolition charges) and 300 rounds 8,8cm Shells.


6th Patrol 12.06.1917 – 17.06.1917: 5 Torpedoes, 0 Mines, 200 rounds 8,8cm, 70 Sprengpatronen (A new Captain was assigned to the uboat and thus the first mission would be in the Hoofden or the Westcoast to get accustomed to the boat and thus I suppose no mines were loaded.)


Also some entries that show how much one vessel needed to sink. Though it must be noticed, that the BRT of ships were often overestimated in the night in torpedo-attacks (some numbers I checked on uboat.net and saw the discrepancy). Also interesting is the fact that many ubat captains fired only one torpedo at a target; I have seen that in other sources as well.


11x8,8cm for 600BRT Sailing vessel (Schooner with two masts)
4x Demolition charge for 3000BRT Steamer
50x8,8cm for 3500BRT Steamer
1xTorp for 3000BRT Steamer
1xTorp for 4000BRT Steamer
4x Demolition charge for 5890BRT Steamer (did not sink and needed a further torpedo as the weather was too bad for demolition charges)
1x Demolition charge for fishing vessel
2x Demolition charge for 177BRT Sailing vessel (Schooner with two masts)
1xTorp for 839BRT Steamer (In the diary is noted 4000BRT, the correct number is from Uboat.net
1xTorp for 5576BRT Tanker
1xTorp for 4000BRT Steamer
30-35x8,8cm for 2,833BRT Steamer (loaded iron ore, 15 direct hits according to Uboat.net
5x Demolition charge for 2400BRT Steamer


It seems the number of charges was increased from 4 to 5 at some point, maybe they saw that 4 often weren’t enough?


The second book is “Der Handelskrieg mit U-booten” by Arno Spindler:
It features a passage about two smaller vessels one with 500BRT and one with 900 BRT were sunk with one demolition charge.



Here also the captains mostly fire only one torpedo at a target and wait for the outcome.

Also some time ago you said you would be interested in torpedo-data and if I could send you what I have. Did you receive it or did it get lost?


Would you be interested in a “Marinequadratkarte”? It features the german naval map which the navy used in ww1 with the unique numbering system of the squares.

Thanks for making this awesome mod!

Best regards
P.S. I would love the addition of Möwe and Wolf, though I wonder how would the disguising part work? To my knowledge the ships mimicked some of their victims?

Thank you! I got the torpedo data. This new data is extremely enlightening. The number of shell hits needed to sink a merchant is about what I predicted. I would like to see the Marinequadratkarte (though I can't promise it will be included in the mod) - regardless it seems interesting, and I will probably at least have it as a non-usable map in the UBoot interior or the Captain's Campaign/Base Room. Interesting that they had over 70 demolition charges - I will probably just include 4-5 charges to make it simpler...with each one able to sink a medium-sized merchant. That would be in line with your data, plus many of the other patrols I have read about where no more than about 5 ships were destroyed per patrol with explosive charges. About Mowe and Wolf, I am still not sure how to imitate the effects of disguise paint schemes, although I have a couple ideas I want to test based on how sensors operate ingame.

[Bubblehead1980]

May have watched/listened to this before but I enjoyed it overall. A lot of great information. There is a part two as well.

[Bubblehead1980]

Question. What will the speech of the crew be like? Standard SH 4 English voices or will have German accents? If not, perhaps make the german speech packs sound mods compatible ? Immersion factor goes up quite a bit .

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Question. What will the speech of the crew be like? Standard SH 4 English voices or will have German accents? If not, perhaps make the german speech packs sound mods compatible ? Immersion factor goes up quite a bit .

Unfortunately there are no plans for changes to the voices. If someone wants to volunteer that would be great, but I will not be contributing my own voice acting (trust me, you don't want to hear it ), and I'd rather not ask my other main team member to help (because he is busy with other things, and has been extremely helpful in other areas).

By the way, the pace of updates has been slower because I've been working 7 day weeks recently.

There will be no 3d modeling in late November due to a vacation. At my parents' house I do not have a PC capable of running SH4. I will, however, spend time writing text/tables for the mod, using MSWord and MSExcel:

-Newspaper Articles
-Wireless Messages
-Campaign Descriptions
-Unit Descriptions for museum mode and the mod manual

I am proud to say we already have over 200 unique distress messages for sinking ships, and perhaps 80-100 news messages for WWI news. I will be adding to that.

Some distress calls will be generic. Others will be historical and based on actual ship sinkings.

The news will be full of details - you will find out about the battles at the Marne in 1914, the first use of poison gas, the progress of fighting at Verdun, and the triple catastrophes of 1918 - Revolution, Mutiny, and Influenza.