Afghanistan deadline - Page 9

Jimbuna · 07-07-21, 07:07 AM

When the whole pack of cards falls, which it most surely do, I;m wondering what the Taliban will do with regards to relationships with other countries.

Catfish · 07-07-21, 09:03 AM

From the Washington Post, this is.. well.. all well known in 2019, and long before.

"Was al-Qaeda the enemy, or the Taliban? Was Pakistan a friend or an adversary? What about the Islamic State and the bewildering array of foreign jihadists, let alone the warlords on the CIA’s payroll? According to the documents, the U.S. government never settled on an answer.
As a result, in the field, U.S. troops often couldn’t tell friend from foe"

Nor did other NATO forces in Afghanistan..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ial-documents/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ents-database/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...01_d5_02202015

Onkel Neal · 07-07-21, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Biden? He just draws the consequences needed. Or did you wish for staying another 20, 30 years there, being rewarded with nothing but stagnation that would reverse thigns to their worst status before the moment you one day pull out in one generation?

In the wake of 9-11 the US had certain hard reasons to go in and do what it did. It achieved those missions by trial and error and patience, but the problem were the follow-up ideas of nation-building and exporting democracy. Totally stupid idea in that part of the world, it is not civilised Germany or disciplined Japan. That is what broke the operation its neck. Not the original reason - the follow up ideas were the problem.
st 20 years.

Leaving is fine, I am ok with that. But bailing out without the coordination of our allies in the Afghan govt and military? Leaving stockpiles of weapons for the Taliban? Sounds like a Trump move.

mapuc · 07-07-21, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Leaving is fine, I am ok with that. But bailing out without the coordination of our allies in the Afghan govt and military? Leaving stockpiles of weapons for the Taliban? Sounds like a Trump move.

First I was thinking, where have I read similar ? In a Tom Clancy book or some other books
Then I remembered it, it's from all these documentary about the end of the Vietnam war. If I remember correctly the retreat from Vietnam was chaotic. USA left a lot of weapon in Saigon and its surroundings.

Markus

Rockstar · 07-07-21, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

When the whole pack of cards falls, which it most surely do, I;m wondering what the Taliban will do with regards to relationships with other countries.

This was no repeat of the British death March or the Soviet retreat.

You make sound as if the Taliban are one cohesive organization following the rule of one leader bent on destroying Afghanistan or as if they caused or departure. Our being there has absolutely nothing to do with freedom democracy, gay rights, racism or women’s rights, not even close. We are there to block China growing influence and exploit Afghanistan mineral wealth.

Sure we may hear of some mayhem as Taliban factions jockey for position and maybe the current government will fall. But regardless if that happens or not. I’m expecting to hear of large corporations begin building facilities to exploit the mineral wealth locked in Afghanistan. They use private security to get their way you know, and those private corporate mercenaries are still there and more are coming. We’ve spent twenty years teaching the Taliban chiefs about the worldly treasures locked in the ground and how they need to behave if they want to get rich.

Jimbuna · 07-07-21, 10:00 AM

Well then, whichever way it goes, matters are going to be most 'interesting' in the coming weeks. months and years ahead.

Rockstar · 07-07-21, 10:59 AM

The days of marching into battle waving flags and band music is a thing of the past.

https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/...es-and-war.pdf

If war starts in Afghanistan AGAIN, it will be between various factions of Afghans supported by the major players in the international community. Accompanied by the usual headlines while we argue who’s to blame. Meanwhile the Military Industrial Complex is making money.

Otto Harkaman · 07-07-21, 11:06 AM

Collapsing so fast just shows how dysfunctional was the whole thing, glad we left!

Otto Harkaman · 07-07-21, 12:54 PM

Maybe the Great Game will now be China vs India?

Why did India open a back channel to the Taliban?
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...to-the-taliban

Quote:

India decided to form back channel communications with relatively friendly factions of the Taliban to avoid losing strategic space to its regional rivals, especially Pakistan, after the US’s withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Russia sits uneasy on the sidelines

Quote:

"We are closely following what is happening in Afghanistan, where the situation tends to deteriorate rapidly, including in the context of the hasty withdrawal of American and other NATO troops," the Russian Foreign Ministry said.

https://english.pravda.ru/news/hotsp...a_afghanistan/

mapuc · 07-07-21, 01:04 PM

Is Afghanistan in any way strategic important ?

Markus

Rockstar · 07-07-21, 01:26 PM

It was in the 80’s when the Soviets invaded. Now its importance its with regards to China plus it has mineral wealth I’m sure some would love to get their hands on or keep others from getting their hands on.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...nsible-taliban

Moonlight · 07-07-21, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Is Afghanistan in any way strategic important ?

Markus

Well it is next door to Iran Markus, apart from that I would say no it's not a strategic location, but, will the Taliban use Afghanistan as a terrorist safe haven again, now that should have been your question.
It would be foolhardy to say no they won't, and the Biden administration will have already discussed the possibility that it will happen, and just maybe it could be the spark that finally opens Pandora's box, a frightening scenario me thinks.
Terrorist safe haven and the USA's mortal enemy next door?, don't you think that killing two birds with one stone springs to mind, I think the polishing of some unused missiles could be taking place in a couple of years.

mapuc · 07-07-21, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlight

Well it is next door to Iran Markus, apart from that I would say no it's not a strategic location, but, will the Taliban use Afghanistan as a terrorist safe haven again, now that should have been your question.
It would be foolhardy to say no they won't, and the Biden administration will have already discussed the possibility that it will happen, and just maybe it could be the spark that finally opens Pandora's box, a frightening scenario me thinks.
Terrorist safe haven and the USA's mortal enemy next door?, don't you think that killing two birds with one stone springs to mind, I think the polishing of some unused missiles could be taking place in a couple of years.

I think Taliban will spread their belief into some of the former Soviet states. Who is neighbour to Afghanistan.
Shouldn't be surprised if states like Tajikistan and Turkmenistan soon will suffer from terror attacks where the sender is Taliban.

Markus

Otto Harkaman · 07-07-21, 04:02 PM

China is moving fast

China sets targets on Afghanistan as the final US troops depart
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia...bace1758e6da7e

Quote:

$US62 billion investment with the “eight-point consensus”

Catfish · 07-07-21, 04:17 PM

With which local chieftain do they negotiate?

07-07-21, 07:07 AM	#121
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,914 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	When the whole pack of cards falls, which it most surely do, I;m wondering what the Taliban will do with regards to relationships with other countries. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

07-07-21, 09:03 AM	#122
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,801 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	From the Washington Post, this is.. well.. all well known in 2019, and long before. "Was al-Qaeda the enemy, or the Taliban? Was Pakistan a friend or an adversary? What about the Islamic State and the bewildering array of foreign jihadists, let alone the warlords on the CIA’s payroll? According to the documents, the U.S. government never settled on an answer. As a result, in the field, U.S. troops often couldn’t tell friend from foe" Nor did other NATO forces in Afghanistan.. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ial-documents/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ents-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...01_d5_02202015 __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

07-07-21, 10:00 AM	#126
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,914 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Well then, whichever way it goes, matters are going to be most 'interesting' in the coming weeks. months and years ahead. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

07-07-21, 11:06 AM	#128
Otto Harkaman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Lexington, Kentucky Posts: 1,190 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Collapsing so fast just shows how dysfunctional was the whole thing, glad we left! __________________ "If you want to know the age of the Earth, look upon the sea in a storm." -Joseph Conrad USS Pompano (SS-181) https://www.oneternalpatrol.com/uss-pompano-181.htm

07-07-21, 01:04 PM	#130
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,558 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Is Afghanistan in any way strategic important ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

07-07-21, 10:59 AM	#127
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The days of marching into battle waving flags and band music is a thing of the past. https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Portals/68/...es-and-war.pdf If war starts in Afghanistan AGAIN, it will be between various factions of Afghans supported by the major players in the international community. Accompanied by the usual headlines while we argue who’s to blame. Meanwhile the Military Industrial Complex is making money.

07-07-21, 01:26 PM	#131
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It was in the 80’s when the Soviets invaded. Now its importance its with regards to China plus it has mineral wealth I’m sure some would love to get their hands on or keep others from getting their hands on. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...nsible-taliban

07-07-21, 04:17 PM	#135
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,801 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	With which local chieftain do they negotiate? __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.