Miami building collapse

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

This just seems impossible without some deliberate, malignant act...

It is. Never assume malice when laziness or stupidity come into play.

The engineer who inspected the building several years ago stressed in his report that the waterproofing in the pool was failing, causing it to leak into the foundation and into the parking garage. Massive stress cracks existed in both as a result. Why was the waterproofing failing? Because the original construction was flat instead of sloping away to allow runoff...

Why was it not repaired? Because the work was still out for bid...

Either the original design was flawed or the construction didn't follow the design.

[Jimbuna]

The death toll has risen to five after the collapse of an apartment block in Florida, authorities say.

Miami-Dade Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said the number unaccounted for has now dropped to 156, with three more of the recovered bodies identified.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57626978

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

It is. Never assume malice when laziness or stupidity come into play.

The engineer who inspected the building several years ago stressed in his report that the waterproofing in the pool was failing, causing it to leak into the foundation and into the parking garage. Massive stress cracks existed in both as a result. Why was the waterproofing failing? Because the original construction was flat instead of sloping away to allow runoff...

Why was it not repaired? Because the work was still out for bid...

Either the original design was flawed or the construction didn't follow the design.

You're probably right. It is so unusual for a whole building to crater instantly... I've heard of a building shifting and becoming dangerous and people noting it and freaking out. But I don't recall a large building like this just dropping like a demo.

[Jimbuna]

Death toll is now at 9 and presumably will start to rise now whilst the people still missing figure is 150

[Red Devil]

Desperately sad. I do hope the builders are taken to cost for building such STRUCTURE ON sand

[d@rk51d3]

Originally Posted by Red Devil

Desperately sad. I do hope the builders are taken to cost for building such STRUCTURE ON sand

Talking to an engineer friend a few years ago, and he told me that sand was a preferred base for a foundation, as it was much more stable than other soil types.

The problem here appears to be failed waterproofing membranes in the pool area that has subsequently rotted out the main structure over the years.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by d@rk51d3

Talking to an engineer friend a few years ago, and he told me that sand was a preferred base for a foundation, as it was much more stable than other soil types.

The problem here appears to be failed waterproofing membranes in the pool area that has subsequently rotted out the main structure over the years.

thanks

[fireftr18]

A fire department buddy of mine is on Ohio Task Force 1. A group set up to respond to all kinds of large scale emergencies. They just returned from there for victim recovery. I haven't had to respond to anything so horrific.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

You're probably right. It is so unusual for a whole building to crater instantly... I've heard of a building shifting and becoming dangerous and people noting it and freaking out. But I don't recall a large building like this just dropping like a demo.

Rate of building sinkage at 2 millimeters a year comes to .07 inches a year since the nineties...aprox. 2 inches max on reclaimed wetlands with or without pool leakage. My bet is: the complete pancaking succession of 12 floors ala the World Trade Center (100+) floors when jet fuel fires weakened the 1 acre slab floors (98th floor aircraft impact point) was caused by a critical steel support failure of a floor; initiating the sudden collapse with a preliminary amount of shaking as reported by Cassondra Billedeau on the phone to her husband, Michael Stratton as the building collapsed: "She described that the building was shaking and then the phone went dead..." I would consider saltwater corrosion at the ocean-front location to be a factor.

 

nothing in that 12-layer pancake is getting out alive...no imho about it.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

Rate of building sinkage at 2 millimeters a year comes to .07 inches a year since the nineties...aprox. 2 inches max on reclaimed wetlands with or without pool leakage. My bet is: the complete pancaking succession of 12 floors ala the World Trade Center (100+) floors when jet fuel fires weakened the 1 acre slab floors (98th floor aircraft impact point) was caused by a critical steel support failure of a floor; initiating the sudden collapse with a preliminary amount of shaking as reported by Cassondra Billedeau on the phone to her husband, Michael Stratton as the building collapsed: "She described that the building was shaking and then the phone went dead..." I would consider saltwater corrosion at the ocean-front location to be a factor.

 

nothing in that 12-layer pancake is getting out alive...no imho about it.

This. Depending upon the specific steel used, from saltwater intrusion or chlorinated pool water leakage, or even freshwater, the corrosion wouldn't need to be across all of the metal to cause structural failure. The water table in Florida is extremely shallow, so if they cut other corners, the pilings driven into bedrock clue have been corroding from both ends. Weaken the pilings, uneven stresses across a weakened slab, the whole thing can come down.

Of course, there is also the John McAfee stored tons of receipts on government criminality in the building theory, but YMMV...

[vienna]

Seriously, I recall several similar, if not as catastrophic building failures over the past several decades, a few here in the US; buildings on the East Coast have been known to spontaneously collapse, although usually due to some underlying event like an internal explosion, etc,; one possible cause I haven't heard mentioned is a sinkhole of some kind; Florida is well-known for its sink holes (no, it not a dig at Gov. DeSantis) and, in recent years, it seems as if they have been more frequent and more severe in size and effects; if there was a failure under the center(s) of the mass of the collapsed section(s) caused by a sudden collapse by a sink hole, the pancaking effect would be more explainable; from the photos and videos I have seen of the disaster site thus far, the floors (stories) rather 'neatly' piled upon each other, which gives almost n hope of finding anymore living residents; if the collapse had been more lateral (horizontal), there might have been areas created to possibly provide survival protections, but the motion was almost perfectly vertical, meaning those on each successively lower floor were crushed directly by the floors above them...




<O>

[Aktungbby]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...condo-building

[Onkel Neal]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/us/su...deo/index.html

Video shows fallen debris and gushing water in the Surfside condo garage moments before collapse

A couple staying at a nearby hotel recorded video that shows debris and gushing water in the underground parking garage of the Surfside condominium building minutes before it collapsed.

Adriana Sarmiento and Roberto Castillero were at a nearby hotel when they recorded video in the early hours of June 24. One recording, taken after the couple heard a loud crash, shows a view through the gate for the parking garage. Water can be seen coming down and concrete rubble appears to have fallen.

The couple watched as residents of the Champlain Towers South building rushed to their balconies, confused about the sound. Sarmiento said she and Castillero scrambled into the street, trying to wave for residents to evacuate, but they couldn't understand her.


The traumatized couple remembers only flashes of what happened next.
"Dust, and then, glass, rock, and then I started running for my life," Castillero said.

Now, my question is, how many other buildings in the area by the same construction firms, exist, and what are their condition? Can you imagine living in a neighboring section of this residential complex?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by vienna

Seriously, I recall several similar, if not as catastrophic building failures over the past several decades, a few here in the US; buildings on the East Coast have been known to spontaneously collapse, although usually due to some underlying event like an internal explosion, etc,; one possible cause I haven't heard mentioned is a sinkhole of some kind; Florida is well-known for its sink holes (no, it not a dig at Gov. DeSantis) and, in recent years, it seems as if they have been more frequent and more severe in size and effects; if there was a failure under the center(s) of the mass of the collapsed section(s) caused by a sudden collapse by a sink hole, the pancaking effect would be more explainable; from the photos and videos I have seen of the disaster site thus far, the floors (stories) rather 'neatly' piled upon each other, which gives almost n hope of finding anymore living residents; if the collapse had been more lateral (horizontal), there might have been areas created to possibly provide survival protections, but the motion was almost perfectly vertical, meaning those on each successively lower floor were crushed directly by the floors above them...




<O>

Man, I guess I was not paying attention, other than the Hyatt balcony, I don't recall any.

[em2nought]

Suddenly the idea of living in a high-rise feels a bit like swimming in the ocean ever since watching "Jaws".