Night surface attack (TWOS)

Markus Witt · 05-05-21, 09:55 AM

After some more tries it seems you need a running time of about 4 minutes to have enough time to get away from the escorts undetected. During one attack running time was 250 seconds (range 3600m) and I got away, could see the escorts behind me at medium range throwing depth charges. During another attack running time was 220 seconds (range 3170m) and I was detected.

So you need to be about 3500m outside the convoy and need about 4 minutes to get away. I'm sure this depends on various factors and varies per attack. But, a succesful surface attack at night with electrics is possible, although the margins are fine. If you overestimate the range you're in trouble.

kapuhy · 05-05-21, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Witt

So you need to be about 3500m outside the convoy and need about 4 minutes to get away.

This convoy, in this weather. Might be quite different with another one, since as you've yourself noted it's dependant on many factors, some of them randomized. But, still nice to have a baseline to start from

Markus Witt · 05-05-21, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapuhy

This convoy, in this weather. Might be quite different with another one, since as you've yourself noted it's dependant on many factors, some of them randomized. But, still nice to have a baseline to start from

Yeah, it was just a test to see if it is possible at all. Like you say, this is just one test under certain conditions that will be different next time. But at least we know it is possible to do it if the conditions are right.

Storm501 · 05-14-21, 05:34 PM

I agree completely that surface attacks in TWOS are harder than historical. At least in 1939-41. Few reasons:

1) Convoy ships are packed more dense than historical. So it is not really possible to sneak inside the convoy and start torpedoing from the inside. (Kretchmer)

2) AI reaction time/system is ridiculous. As you mention all search lights focus on you in fraction of a second. In reality there would be a lot more confusion and searching.

3) AI gunnery is sniper accurate. Even if spotted, U-boats were difficult targets at night in deck awash.

Only point 3) can be edited as far as I know. It is possible to increase the scatter of AI gunnery. I recall that I tripled the scatter value. Now it is what I consider realistic. It is lethal, not not pinpoint.

So surface attacks are indeed difficult. With stealth it is possible to get as close as 3000 from escorts on surface to fire. However as you pointed out any escape is close to impossible. Only at ranges of 5000m there is a moderate chance to avoid detection.

My personal style similar to a torpedo boat: Fire at 4-5km range at flank speed with slow torp. Thus I have about 5 min to turn away from the convoy, increase the range to 8 km. 1 min before torp hit or if searchlights go deck awash. That way if spotted, dive time is reduced to a fraction.

les green01 · 05-14-21, 07:55 PM

only thing i can say i must be lucky i made two up the middle convoy attacks hadn't made it to 41 yet

05-14-21, 05:34 PM	#4
Storm501 Seaman Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 36 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	I agree completely that surface attacks in TWOS are harder than historical. At least in 1939-41. Few reasons: 1) Convoy ships are packed more dense than historical. So it is not really possible to sneak inside the convoy and start torpedoing from the inside. (Kretchmer) 2) AI reaction time/system is ridiculous. As you mention all search lights focus on you in fraction of a second. In reality there would be a lot more confusion and searching. 3) AI gunnery is sniper accurate. Even if spotted, U-boats were difficult targets at night in deck awash. Only point 3) can be edited as far as I know. It is possible to increase the scatter of AI gunnery. I recall that I tripled the scatter value. Now it is what I consider realistic. It is lethal, not not pinpoint. So surface attacks are indeed difficult. With stealth it is possible to get as close as 3000 from escorts on surface to fire. However as you pointed out any escape is close to impossible. Only at ranges of 5000m there is a moderate chance to avoid detection. My personal style similar to a torpedo boat: Fire at 4-5km range at flank speed with slow torp. Thus I have about 5 min to turn away from the convoy, increase the range to 8 km. 1 min before torp hit or if searchlights go deck awash. That way if spotted, dive time is reduced to a fraction. __________________ U47 05JAN-27FEB41 Steel Wolves Board Game AAR

05-14-21, 07:55 PM	#5
les green01 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Freeman Missouri Posts: 1,784 Downloads: 1405 Uploads: 0	only thing i can say i must be lucky i made two up the middle convoy attacks hadn't made it to 41 yet __________________ I'll tell you what bravery really is. Bravery is just determination to do a job that you know has to be done. Audie Murphy

05-05-21, 09:55 AM	#1
Markus Witt Navy Dude Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: AN8563 Posts: 171 Downloads: 312 Uploads: 0	After some more tries it seems you need a running time of about 4 minutes to have enough time to get away from the escorts undetected. During one attack running time was 250 seconds (range 3600m) and I got away, could see the escorts behind me at medium range throwing depth charges. During another attack running time was 220 seconds (range 3170m) and I was detected. So you need to be about 3500m outside the convoy and need about 4 minutes to get away. I'm sure this depends on various factors and varies per attack. But, a succesful surface attack at night with electrics is possible, although the margins are fine. If you overestimate the range you're in trouble.