Sub Turn Radius

Torpex77 · 03-24-21, 05:16 PM

I've been Observing the Turn Rates of the Subs in Game and watching film Footage of The Gato-Balao Class turn, and maneuver. The In Game subs turn much much slower then the WWII subs did. They turn like a car with bow to stern making a perfect radius "groove" with no stern sideways slip. Diesel Electric Subs of that Era-1915-1950's were basically Surface ships with rudder and stern planes AFT of the screws. Modern Nuke boats Put the screw aft of the control surfaces. Screw aft is definitely not as Maneuverable since it depends on the water flow across the surfaces to have an effect.

WWII boats, S Class included, has the significant advantage of two screws and the screws put the flow directly against/across the control surfaces. They could maneuver so well they rarely ever needed tugs. They could in a calm port turn full 360 one shaft ahead and one astern. Ive spoken in the past to Officers and vets of diesel Boats in the 80's when I entered service.

So, Im not a Modder, but is there someone who could guide me to which files to adjust for shorting/ improving the turn rate a little?

Thanks in Advance. ))

propbeanie · 03-24-21, 06:37 PM

You can get some relief in the SubName.sim file, but an alteration in one area of the sim, affects nearly all other areas. Each of the "main" entries in the sim file has a "Parent Node" that links to the dat file for the SubName. You would mostly be working in the , unit_Submarine section of the SubName.sim file, editing sections that are named appropriately, but the figures are not associated with anything resembling real life, so tread carefully. The use of Silent 3Ditor (S3D) is recommended, unless you're a brainiac that knows hex editing...

One of the main differences between the real subs and game's subs (besides there only being two engines and two motors) is that the real sub could order ahead full on the port engine, and reverse 1/3 on the starboard (or whatever settings they wanted), which helped them turn much tighter.

Torpex77 · 03-24-21, 09:08 PM

Thanks propbeanie!!

I'll give it wack this weekend.

KaleunMarco · 03-25-21, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torpex77

Thanks propbeanie!!

I'll give it wack this weekend.

be careful.

when you adjust the rudder and plane effects in the dotSIM file, it changes all of the ship dynamics and not just turning radius.
be prepared to be frustrated by the fact that the application cannot get close to matching reality.
good luck.

Torpex77 · 03-25-21, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaleunMarco

be careful.

when you adjust the rudder and plane effects in the dotSIM file, it changes all of the ship dynamics and not just turning radius.
be prepared to be frustrated by the fact that the application cannot get close to matching reality.
good luck.

Which does make sense, as they would. Do you know if anyone specifically tried to make the subs turn a little better? Only asking because I dont want to "battle a sunken ship"

KaleunMarco · 03-25-21, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torpex77

Which does make sense, as they would. Do you know if anyone specifically tried to make the subs turn a little better? Only asking because I dont want to "battle a sunken ship"

i do not know anyone who has attempted what you are attempting.

i have tried to vary the drag values but tuning it properly takes more patience than i have.
if the drag is too high, it takes forever to turn or to dive/surface.
if the drag is too low, the boat acts like a cork and takes forever to slow/stop.
this does not include the process of changing values, launching, starting a mission, testing the boat, exiting and starting all over again.
as i said before, good luck. if you figure it out you are a better man than i am, Gunga Din.

propbeanie · 03-26-21, 02:02 AM

You could compare Stock figures, to RFB, to TMO, and get an idea of the differences.

Macgregor the Hammer · 03-26-21, 10:11 AM

On this same topic, I've wondered if the dive planes actually work or is diving and surfacing just another variable in the equation. There's no way to control them, at least that I've found. Dive fast, flood negative; surface fast, emergency blow.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

KaleunMarco · 03-26-21, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macgregor the Hammer

On this same topic, I've wondered if the dive planes actually work or is diving and surfacing just another variable in the equation. There's no way to control them, at least that I've found. Dive fast, flood negative; surface fast, emergency blow.

Am I wrong in this assumption?

nope. you are dead-on, balls-accurate.
the only variables are the drag variables and, yes, they DO affect performance.
set them too high and it will take you five minutes to submerge.

more than once i've wanted to control a turn with a bit more sensitivity than selecting a course but, no.
same thing for depth. it would be great to be able to control your planes and come up quicker but shallower, but, no.

yes, there are all kinds of work-arounds, but it takes your attention away from other issues that may be more important at the time.

bottom line, we (you) get only the drag variables so, like it or lump it.

03-24-21, 05:16 PM	#1
Torpex77 Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania-Endless Moutains Posts: 106 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Sub Turn Radius I've been Observing the Turn Rates of the Subs in Game and watching film Footage of The Gato-Balao Class turn, and maneuver. The In Game subs turn much much slower then the WWII subs did. They turn like a car with bow to stern making a perfect radius "groove" with no stern sideways slip. Diesel Electric Subs of that Era-1915-1950's were basically Surface ships with rudder and stern planes AFT of the screws. Modern Nuke boats Put the screw aft of the control surfaces. Screw aft is definitely not as Maneuverable since it depends on the water flow across the surfaces to have an effect. WWII boats, S Class included, has the significant advantage of two screws and the screws put the flow directly against/across the control surfaces. They could maneuver so well they rarely ever needed tugs. They could in a calm port turn full 360 one shaft ahead and one astern. Ive spoken in the past to Officers and vets of diesel Boats in the 80's when I entered service. So, Im not a Modder, but is there someone who could guide me to which files to adjust for shorting/ improving the turn rate a little? Thanks in Advance. )) __________________ A Submarine Simulation should "simulate" Historical Reality as best as possible! No Excuse, because whatsoever your trying to simulate, is documented..somewhere!

03-24-21, 06:37 PM	#2
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,100 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	You can get some relief in the SubName.sim file, but an alteration in one area of the sim, affects nearly all other areas. Each of the "main" entries in the sim file has a "Parent Node" that links to the dat file for the SubName. You would mostly be working in the , unit_Submarine section of the SubName.sim file, editing sections that are named appropriately, but the figures are not associated with anything resembling real life, so tread carefully. The use of Silent 3Ditor (S3D) is recommended, unless you're a brainiac that knows hex editing... One of the main differences between the real subs and game's subs (besides there only being two engines and two motors) is that the real sub could order ahead full on the port engine, and reverse 1/3 on the starboard (or whatever settings they wanted), which helped them turn much tighter. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna Last edited by propbeanie; 03-24-21 at 07:05 PM. Reason: broken linkie... hmmm

03-24-21, 09:08 PM	#3
Torpex77 Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Pennsylvania-Endless Moutains Posts: 106 Downloads: 72 Uploads: 0	Turn Radius Thanks propbeanie!! I'll give it wack this weekend. __________________ A Submarine Simulation should "simulate" Historical Reality as best as possible! No Excuse, because whatsoever your trying to simulate, is documented..somewhere!

03-26-21, 02:02 AM	#7
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,100 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	You could compare Stock figures, to RFB, to TMO, and get an idea of the differences. __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

03-26-21, 10:11 AM	#8
Macgregor the Hammer Chief Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Minnesota Posts: 325 Downloads: 535 Uploads: 1	On this same topic, I've wondered if the dive planes actually work or is diving and surfacing just another variable in the equation. There's no way to control them, at least that I've found. Dive fast, flood negative; surface fast, emergency blow. Am I wrong in this assumption? __________________ "It's impossible to make anything fool proof....Fools are too ingenious!"