The future of europe?/Islam threads (Merged) - Page 12

tycho102 · 06-27-06, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

So what is Israel to do now?

I'm starting to come around to the carpet-bombing option. But at the very least, I can't believe we ended up sending aid to the Palestinians.

Don't elect someone if you are not prepared to deal with the consequences. That goes for America just as much as it goes for Hamas and Palestine.

Skybird · 06-27-06, 06:56 PM

Germany just decided on an immediate aid package of over 20 million for Hamas-voters.

We are very kind and reasonable, you know.

bradclark1 · 06-27-06, 07:14 PM

Look, it's very simple. The west is intent on good-guying ourselves to death.
Remember the saying. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. You can't get much closer than spoon feeding your enemy.
Are we stupid or what?

scandium · 06-27-06, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

I'll do one better on this one and give you a pass on it, since all religions - to continue to exist - need to expand their followers and in the process tend to spread out.

What would happen if Christian affiliation shrank world-wide?

What about Judaism? We have no urgent need to "expand their followers", as you put it.

What about Budhism?

Hinduism?

What about them? At a minimum all of those religions have established at least enough growth to sustain themselves over the millenia and have also spread far beyond their original borders. Christianity and Islam have both been especially successfully at expansion.

Quote:

Its the leap from that to your sinister Islamic world domination predictions

While I might have predictions, they are based on what Islam teaches, what Muslims are saying worldwide and what Muslim's do and the actions they take and promote. And you?

I base mine on history, an atlas, and demographics. While Islam has spread, yes, so has every other religion - so what? Islam still competes with other religions and other ideologies. Your fears might be well founded - if we turned back the clock about 5 centuries and removed every other major religion to leave only Islam. As it stands now there is no vacuum for it to fill.

scandium · 06-27-06, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yeah, all religions are equal, sure. Everything is equal, everything is of the same value, every man is as valuable as every other man, there are not qualitative differences, it is all nicely and well-meaningly levelled out. Long live the equality of victim and perpetrator, long live the equality of the noble and the rogue, long live the the equality of those that create, and those that steal it without caring to add their effort to the creating cause!

I'm no expert on Islam, but I knowe enough of it to realize that all who practice it are not identical. Most, in fact, of its 1.2 billion followers, seem to do so peacefully. For those that don't, how much of their actions are due to the religion itself and how much to other factors? Skybird, you are guilty of the very same thing the eugenics followers were back in its heyday - only where they tried to simplify everything to genetics, you substitute Islam and draw the same faulty conclusions. Unfortunately for your theories, and you should know better, people are not that simple.

Quote:

Long live the tolerance for greed, slyness and envy!

No, long live rationality and judging a person on their actions and not their religion, race, or gender.

Quote:

The one who has rejected all identity of himself, has no tool available anymore to form criterias to decide what he tolerates, and what not. Becasue he has not only no solid ground to stand on, he has no ground at all, and call this the absence of indoctrination. For him, all and everything is levelled-out, of same size and value, vague in form, undifferenciated in quality. He lives in mental lethargy, and calls it liberty. He is a walking dead, spreading paralysis around him.

Really? I would think it more challenging to judge a person on their actions and character than to paint people into neat little categories like you are doing... 'oh you are christian, therefore you are Good and Noble... Muslim? well you are greedy, sly, and envious...'

Skybird · 06-27-06, 08:37 PM

Is it also eugenic to brandmark Naszism as something bad? If an ideology by content and historical example has proven itself to be of "evil", must it nevertheless be tolerated, in the name of a greater tolerance? If a majority of people whose "faith" is so much diverse, as you indicate, remains silent and inactive and do nothing efficient to ban those "radicals" that claim to represent this faith in it's true form (and I insist on that they have Muhammad and Koran and history on their side in this claim), does this not allow to make logical conclusions about these silent majorities attitude towards those (infidels) at whose cost this abuse of their precious ideology is being practiced (like it is argued that the Palestinians are not responisble for having elected Hamas in to office?). Must I not believe a Muslim who preaches my subjugation and my second-class value as a human being, if his own people do nothing, nothing, nothing, to make him shut up, quit his rank and office, and make sure that he and people like him cannot get back to representative and administrative powers? Should I mistrust those truly secular groups in Turkish population that warn the West to acceopt Turkey or Islam and ignroing it's agenda to bring down Western values and coinstitutional orders and make them submit to Islam? when i see these observations and comapre them to the theology and the history of Islam and see it in correspondence since over a thousand years, should I ignore it and think of it as pure random chance? Is it a peaceful attitude of mind if people do not commit bloodshed with their own hands - but allow that some commit it, in their names and the name of their belief? Is that reasonable, convincing, civilized, unbiased? Should I assume that a robber and thief, a warmonger, massmurder and narcistic psychopath, a greedy sly desert gangster for whom all world he knew still was not enough, and who has ordered over 70 wars and predatory raids, who tried to wipe out whole tribes because their intellectuals were superior to his own self-made education, who murdered by his own hands before he preached the first time, who sent hundred and thousands of captured females into slavery, who murdered critics and people who did not believe his megalomania - should I assume that such a man could be the origin of a cult that promises peace, justice and reason? Should I take people who still believe in this sick figure and stubbornly reject to ever ask question about themselves and never test their belief (as has been done by almost every other greater religion that has survived until today) as people whose civilisation is of equal value and as worthy a set of ethics than ours? - Truth is, I do exactly as you recommend: I judge Muslim communities in cities, countries by their deeds, and what they alloow to be happening in their name, or not. And this is what speaks against them, loud, and with an alomost yelling voice. - A US GI enters A German house and sees the bright spots on the wall where the photos of the Führer were hanging. The houseowner comes down the stairs and says he was no Nazi, and he still is no Nazi, and Fascism is bad. He insists that Hitler is a great man, and the party always is right. You take him as an honest democrat and ignore the contradictions. I do not trust him a bit, and label him a Nazi. I let the deeds and facts speak, for words are cheap and must not be true. - Deeds, dear Islam, no words, promises, declarations, all of which you, dear Islam, explicitly allow to be abused in lies and deceptions if it is for the purposes to weaken the infidels and strengthen Islam. Some days ago, the British Muslim community sent a speaker to the microphones, after one year the finally said that it is not legitimate to kill innocents in the name of Islam. At the same time statements by even higher-ranking clerics from ALL Muslim countries that population of wetsern coutries are no innocents, since years and decades remain anquestioned,unchallenged, uncritizised by public Muslim organization and communities. Cheap wordplays only, not worth anything. But according to you, Scnadium, this just means nothing. But it is sly indeed, and greed and env plays a major role in Muhammad's demand to rule and own all world. Islam is his baby. Like it never was enough for him, it never is enough for Islam as well. That is no cheap slogan by me, that I conclude after having studied Islamic history and Muhammad's biography and character qith quite some effort and material. If I really were that stupid like you indicate, then you might want to explain why I do not attack races, other religions and cultures (burning widows inHinduism isn'T nice, is it?) thta are also present inGermany and europe. Africans for example, in huge numbers. Hindus. Indians. Jews.... Poor Islam (or shall I say Muhammadanism, becasue it exclusively is about what Muhammad has created in word, deed and sermon), mean evil Skybird just misunderstood how wellmeaning you really are. That you, poor Islam, has fought more wars against other Islamic factions than any other world religion ever has fought within itself (you can simply count it out in history books), and that innocent peaceloving Islam has started more wars of attack against other cultures than any other religion (including the bad evil "Christians", please do the counting thing again), I'm sure is only accidental. That Muslims today destroy cemetaries of foreign religionsin their territories, and destroy cultural monuments of historic value because they remind them of the time before the arrival of Islam, the time of chaos (if that is not ironic), and that all this take splace without a single Muslim country raisng it's voice against that, and withoiut a single muslim organization makes itself heared and noticed by effective dcededs to stop those who do it, certainly has no meaning that is worth to think about. Because we must be solidaric in our decision to think of Islam as being an equal.

Yahoshua · 06-27-06, 10:48 PM

"I'm starting to come around to the carpet-bombing option."

You may actually get your wish there tycho.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060628/...GZhBHNlYwM3MjE-

But I wouldn't expect the carpet bombing to arrive just yet.....it'll be cheaper to expend the arty shells that've been stored up.

The Avon Lady · 06-28-06, 12:40 AM

Skybird, I like your posts but I think it's time we introduced you to a new word.

Iceman · 06-28-06, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaken

well, you know what? I've been reading this post and the quoted articles since the beginning. After 9 pages of arguments (most of which have been repeated endlessly, although in slightly different flavors), no one has budged an inch from their positions and no one will. Therefore my question.

I have been a part of this forum for a while now and I tell ya I have learned alot from other people here and I used to be of the group....which most in America are I think....the ignorant group.... when it comes to Islam and it's purpose and mission.Being a Christian I do not subscribe to the carpet bombing approach but from what I have gleaned from this site and info I have learned from here I can understand why some do.

What it does for me is only to re-enforce and re-affirm what I have learned from Christ's teachings in the bible and why Christ must return to put things in order again...because man is simply not capable of doing it himself.

I believe every person has a gift from the creator and mine happens to be understanding...I understand why Christians believe the way they do...Jews they way they do and Muslims they way they do.Much in part from peoples here.

Just throwing in 2 cents and letting peeps know that I do read these boards and some is garbage and some is very intresting stuff.And a thank you to all who do post no matter the opinion.We all got em and we all know what they are like.

Skybird · 06-28-06, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Skybird, I like your posts but I think it's time we introduced you to a new word.

And that word is what?

The Avon Lady · 06-28-06, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Skybird, I like your posts but I think it's time we introduced you to a new word.

And that word is what?

Well it was "paragraph" but maybe it should have been "hyperlink."

:p

Skybird · 06-28-06, 05:22 AM

Hyperlinks, yes. but I have done almost all my reading on Islam by books only, only a very bit by internet research. Beside my daily patrol at Jihadwatch.com, Dhimmiwatch.com, a couple of international newspapers (Germany, Britain, US, Russia, Aljazeerah), Brusseljournal and Telepolis, I certainly miss a lot of interesting stuff, or forget it very quickly again. concerning linking you are far better skilled than I am, I admit without envy. And checking for these sites all day long is no job I do 24/7 anyway.Also, links are good for supporting one's opinion. they should not replace to voice one's opinion in general. that's why I wrote those two longer essay back then, instead of simply scanning some chapters from a book by Raddatz. A pity he was not translated so far, you would love his books. Very sharp-thinking and sharp-tongued observer, uncompromised is in determination to make Islam obejct of reasonable analysis and logical examination, and having an encyclopedic knowledge about Islam. we hate him

Just moved to the US, for German or Austrian police cannot protect him anylonger (or does not want to).

The Avon Lady · 06-28-06, 05:33 AM

Paragraphs!

Skybird · 06-28-06, 07:35 AM

Jajajaaaa... It because the new board software does not allow text formation with IE security settings at maximum. I always have it at maximum, and then forget to set it to medium before starting to type. When I finished typing, and realize the setting, I could switch to medium settings - and have to update the page again. Which clears the cache memory, so that I have to type everything again, for some reason inside IE the clipboard content most of the time gets deleted, too. - I am not happy with the new forum software, but having IE at maximum settings as standard routine really pays off.

The Avon Lady · 06-28-06, 08:07 AM

What if you went into Windows Internet Options and added *.subsim.com as a trusted site? :hmm:

Back on topic. For the Scandiums among us: Islam’s Lethal Certitude.

06-27-06, 06:56 PM	#167
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,824 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Germany just decided on an immediate aid package of over 20 million for Hamas-voters. We are very kind and reasonable, you know. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-27-06, 08:37 PM	#171
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,824 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Is it also eugenic to brandmark Naszism as something bad? If an ideology by content and historical example has proven itself to be of "evil", must it nevertheless be tolerated, in the name of a greater tolerance? If a majority of people whose "faith" is so much diverse, as you indicate, remains silent and inactive and do nothing efficient to ban those "radicals" that claim to represent this faith in it's true form (and I insist on that they have Muhammad and Koran and history on their side in this claim), does this not allow to make logical conclusions about these silent majorities attitude towards those (infidels) at whose cost this abuse of their precious ideology is being practiced (like it is argued that the Palestinians are not responisble for having elected Hamas in to office?). Must I not believe a Muslim who preaches my subjugation and my second-class value as a human being, if his own people do nothing, nothing, nothing, to make him shut up, quit his rank and office, and make sure that he and people like him cannot get back to representative and administrative powers? Should I mistrust those truly secular groups in Turkish population that warn the West to acceopt Turkey or Islam and ignroing it's agenda to bring down Western values and coinstitutional orders and make them submit to Islam? when i see these observations and comapre them to the theology and the history of Islam and see it in correspondence since over a thousand years, should I ignore it and think of it as pure random chance? Is it a peaceful attitude of mind if people do not commit bloodshed with their own hands - but allow that some commit it, in their names and the name of their belief? Is that reasonable, convincing, civilized, unbiased? Should I assume that a robber and thief, a warmonger, massmurder and narcistic psychopath, a greedy sly desert gangster for whom all world he knew still was not enough, and who has ordered over 70 wars and predatory raids, who tried to wipe out whole tribes because their intellectuals were superior to his own self-made education, who murdered by his own hands before he preached the first time, who sent hundred and thousands of captured females into slavery, who murdered critics and people who did not believe his megalomania - should I assume that such a man could be the origin of a cult that promises peace, justice and reason? Should I take people who still believe in this sick figure and stubbornly reject to ever ask question about themselves and never test their belief (as has been done by almost every other greater religion that has survived until today) as people whose civilisation is of equal value and as worthy a set of ethics than ours? - Truth is, I do exactly as you recommend: I judge Muslim communities in cities, countries by their deeds, and what they alloow to be happening in their name, or not. And this is what speaks against them, loud, and with an alomost yelling voice. - A US GI enters A German house and sees the bright spots on the wall where the photos of the Führer were hanging. The houseowner comes down the stairs and says he was no Nazi, and he still is no Nazi, and Fascism is bad. He insists that Hitler is a great man, and the party always is right. You take him as an honest democrat and ignore the contradictions. I do not trust him a bit, and label him a Nazi. I let the deeds and facts speak, for words are cheap and must not be true. - Deeds, dear Islam, no words, promises, declarations, all of which you, dear Islam, explicitly allow to be abused in lies and deceptions if it is for the purposes to weaken the infidels and strengthen Islam. Some days ago, the British Muslim community sent a speaker to the microphones, after one year the finally said that it is not legitimate to kill innocents in the name of Islam. At the same time statements by even higher-ranking clerics from ALL Muslim countries that population of wetsern coutries are no innocents, since years and decades remain anquestioned,unchallenged, uncritizised by public Muslim organization and communities. Cheap wordplays only, not worth anything. But according to you, Scnadium, this just means nothing. But it is sly indeed, and greed and env plays a major role in Muhammad's demand to rule and own all world. Islam is his baby. Like it never was enough for him, it never is enough for Islam as well. That is no cheap slogan by me, that I conclude after having studied Islamic history and Muhammad's biography and character qith quite some effort and material. If I really were that stupid like you indicate, then you might want to explain why I do not attack races, other religions and cultures (burning widows inHinduism isn'T nice, is it?) thta are also present inGermany and europe. Africans for example, in huge numbers. Hindus. Indians. Jews.... Poor Islam (or shall I say Muhammadanism, becasue it exclusively is about what Muhammad has created in word, deed and sermon), mean evil Skybird just misunderstood how wellmeaning you really are. That you, poor Islam, has fought more wars against other Islamic factions than any other world religion ever has fought within itself (you can simply count it out in history books), and that innocent peaceloving Islam has started more wars of attack against other cultures than any other religion (including the bad evil "Christians", please do the counting thing again), I'm sure is only accidental. That Muslims today destroy cemetaries of foreign religionsin their territories, and destroy cultural monuments of historic value because they remind them of the time before the arrival of Islam, the time of chaos (if that is not ironic), and that all this take splace without a single Muslim country raisng it's voice against that, and withoiut a single muslim organization makes itself heared and noticed by effective dcededs to stop those who do it, certainly has no meaning that is worth to think about. Because we must be solidaric in our decision to think of Islam as being an equal. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-27-06, 10:48 PM	#172
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	"I'm starting to come around to the carpet-bombing option." You may actually get your wish there tycho. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060628/...GZhBHNlYwM3MjE- But I wouldn't expect the carpet bombing to arrive just yet.....it'll be cheaper to expend the arty shells that've been stored up. __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

06-28-06, 12:40 AM	#173
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Skybird, I like your posts but I think it's time we introduced you to a new word. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

06-28-06, 05:22 AM	#177
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,824 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Hyperlinks, yes. but I have done almost all my reading on Islam by books only, only a very bit by internet research. Beside my daily patrol at Jihadwatch.com, Dhimmiwatch.com, a couple of international newspapers (Germany, Britain, US, Russia, Aljazeerah), Brusseljournal and Telepolis, I certainly miss a lot of interesting stuff, or forget it very quickly again. concerning linking you are far better skilled than I am, I admit without envy. And checking for these sites all day long is no job I do 24/7 anyway.Also, links are good for supporting one's opinion. they should not replace to voice one's opinion in general. that's why I wrote those two longer essay back then, instead of simply scanning some chapters from a book by Raddatz. A pity he was not translated so far, you would love his books. Very sharp-thinking and sharp-tongued observer, uncompromised is in determination to make Islam obejct of reasonable analysis and logical examination, and having an encyclopedic knowledge about Islam. we hate him Just moved to the US, for German or Austrian police cannot protect him anylonger (or does not want to). __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-27-06, 07:14 PM	#168
bradclark1 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Connecticut, USA. Posts: 2,794 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Look, it's very simple. The west is intent on good-guying ourselves to death. Remember the saying. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. You can't get much closer than spoon feeding your enemy. Are we stupid or what?

06-28-06, 05:33 AM	#178
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! Paragraphs! __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

06-28-06, 07:35 AM	#179
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,824 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Jajajaaaa... It because the new board software does not allow text formation with IE security settings at maximum. I always have it at maximum, and then forget to set it to medium before starting to type. When I finished typing, and realize the setting, I could switch to medium settings - and have to update the page again. Which clears the cache memory, so that I have to type everything again, for some reason inside IE the clipboard content most of the time gets deleted, too. - I am not happy with the new forum software, but having IE at maximum settings as standard routine really pays off. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-28-06, 08:07 AM	#180
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	What if you went into Windows Internet Options and added .subsim.com as a trusted site? :hmm: Back on topic. For the Scandiums among us: Islam’s Lethal Certitude. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women."* - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974