US Politics Thread 2021-24

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

No, I'm saying whataboutism is wrong. always. Voting against impeaching Clinton for lying under oath & obstructing justice was wrong. If there was a "Whataboutwhattherepublicansdidbefore" (I don't remember, but I'm also too young to have been overly interested back then) - that was *more wrong*.

It's an easy argument to not do the right thing now (voting against the constitution wether the senate should resolve this impeachment or not - because there really isn't anything to decide) because of what the oponent did 22 years ago.

I have a theory that these senators are afraid, which would be a natural thing to be - think Whittmer, think family Raffensperger.

The question you have to answer for yourself: is this still a country you want to live in? Where any official no longer has take care of what (s)he says, can *unintentionally* bring a violent mob, that, without any connection to the officials words, goes after the officials enemies. Where they takes no responsibility for the actions of their followers.
Basically the reign of those with the most violent followers. Do you want this to happen again, or should you do everything possible to prevent it?

Ok, I understand. I'm not for this overheated rhetoric myself, not when Trump/Limbaugh/Hannity spew it, not when AOC/Schumer/Pelosi and the miserable congress rats like Maxine Waters and Sheila J-Lee, Cynthia Johnson, Marjorie Greene and other slimy bits of bowel excrement spew it.

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Are you referring his well-known love of pursuit of women? Doesn't make him sexist, but yeah, not keeping it in your pants is a character flaw.

Are you referring to his "grab 'em by the..." tape?

When you look at the entire tape, it's clear he was illustrating the difference in reaction from certain kinds of women who gravitate towards a career in entertainment to such a forward move by some random regular guy and if it comes from the rich and famous who have the ability to improve the financial and social standing if they let them.

Unfortunately when the MSM and political opponents take the video and edit it down to just "...and I grab them by the..." without the context of the words trying to illustrate the double standard in entertainment, that's the only thing most people ever see and hear and naturally assume that's what he said and he's a sexist pig.

I don't think anyone thinks he's squeaky clean - decades in real estate in NYC pretty much guarantees that he's done some less than aboveboard things, but I think that what most everyone is most upset about him is that he wasn't able to be bought off or silenced by political enemies or by so-called allies - that he didn't fit the typical mold of a politician or public figure where they think they've got some dirt that ends his run and instead of a grovelling apology, he just ignored it or worse (for them), he returned fire (and it was usually an on-target, fire-for-effect response).

I'm referring to his lifetime achievement status of being a horrible person toward women. Cheating on his wives, sleeping with dumpy porno queens, bashing women in debates, and yeah, the general attitude and tendency to debase women.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I'm referring to his lifetime achievement status of being a horrible person toward women. Cheating on his wives, sleeping with dumpy porno queens, bashing women in debates, and yeah, the general attitude and tendency to debase women.

Given the track record of other Presidents when it comes to how they treat women, Trump's in good company with most of them - especially the Kennedy clan, LBJ, the Clinton mafia, who hid and covered up their misdeeds.

Cheating on his wife - problem.
Sleeping with dumpy porno queens - personal taste?Bashing women in debates - equal rights, equal treatment. Especially in a political debate, your opponent's flaws and failures are fair game, regardless of gender.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Given the track record of other Presidents when it comes to how they treat women, Trump's in good company with most of them - especially the Kennedy clan, LBJ, the Clinton mafia, who hid and covered up their misdeeds.

Yeah. WhatabouttheClintonsorKennedies?

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Yeah. WhatabouttheClintonsorKennedies?

Doesn't make it not true. The Kennedies were known misogynists (JFK-RFK threesomes, Teddy drowning his date...)

Clinton's treatment of women was on display for the whole world.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

Voting against impeaching Clinton for lying under oath & obstructing justice was wrong.

Actually what was wrong about it was the fact that the Republicans decided to impeach Clinton knowing that it would not result in a conviction. It shouldn't have happened. The impeachment process was never meant to punish the political opposition. The last three impeachments have been just that. As I have stated, without a resonable consensus that would at least come close to removal it is that thing with goats. Only in the Nixon case was this a reality. And because of it Nixon resigned. And the reason he did is because enough GOP Senators were not going to defend his obvious illegal activities and they let it be known.

It's an easy argument to not do the right thing now (voting against the constitution wether the senate should resolve this impeachment or not - because there really isn't anything to decide) because of what the oponent did 22 years ago.

I don't think that is the argument. It is more along the lines of 'we are not going to let you punish a GOP politician without good cause or consenus.' It is no more complicated than that. And the reason for that is because then it will be the normal thing to do in Washington. You may not like the way it pans out but it is a political reality that you should try to understand.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Given the track record of other Presidents when it comes to how they treat women, Trump's in good company with most of them - especially the Kennedy clan, LBJ, the Clinton mafia, who hid and covered up their misdeeds.

Cheating on his wife - problem.
Sleeping with dumpy porno queens - personal taste?Bashing women in debates - equal rights, equal treatment. Especially in a political debate, your opponent's flaws and failures are fair game, regardless of gender.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

What part of "Bashing women in debates - equal rights, equal treatment. Especially in a political debate, your opponent's flaws and failures are fair game, regardless of gender" didn't you understand?

If you are in a debate, you're fair game. The shrinking violet routine won't work for women any more - this isn't the 1950s.

[Buddahaid]

Right so she should have just called Trump an ugly orange fat bastard.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Right so she should have just called Trump an ugly orange fat bastard.

That works for me. We'd all be better off if everyone just said what they actually felt and we were all brutally honest with each other.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

That works for me. We'd all be better off if everyone just said what they actually felt and we were all brutally honest with each other.

It doesn't work for me and was one of the big reasons I wanted Trump out. Adults should be able to slip the blade in without resorting to kindergarten sandbox language.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

It doesn't work for me and was one of the big reasons I wanted Trump out. Adults should be able to slip the blade in without resorting to kindergarten sandbox language.

That's not adult, just underhanded.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by August

That's not adult, just underhanded.

As if politics has ever stood above being underhanded and don't even try to convince me Trump is above that and all John Wayne plain language righteous. The honesty is missing and long dead.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeah, I just think the world has enough problems without resorting to tacky, immature insults from our leaders. I want more Reagan and less scuzzball. Give me a leader I can aspire to, not one I would leave the restaurant if they were seated next to me.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

As if politics has ever stood above being underhanded and don't even try to convince me Trump is above that and all John Wayne plain language righteous. The honesty is missing and long dead.

Just think about what you just said about honesty. We finally had a guy as president who was honest about what he was about.

All anyone had to do was take what he said seriously but not take what he said literally. Poet laureate, he isn't.

[August]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

As if politics has ever stood above being underhanded and don't even try to convince me Trump is above that and all John Wayne plain language righteous. The honesty is missing and long dead.

I didn't make that claim. I just see that you don't have a problem with slipping "the blade in" just as long as it is cloaked in niceties and that to me is a prime example of what is wrong with the nation.