US Politics Thread 2021-24

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

.. and those that believe in conspiracy theories, lies about voter fraud, delusions about an illegitimate government and ... jewish space lasers. In other words right through the republican party.

There are 211 Republican members in the house. Do you think that they all share the views of certain individual members on the GOP side? If you do how about some names?

As soon as the GOP manages to cleanse itself of those without democratic believes, "healing", "unity", and consensus are back on the table.

Do you think that there are no Democrat members of the house that fall into that catagory?

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by u crank

There are 211 Republican members in the house. Do you think that they all share the views of certain individual members on the GOP side? If you do how about some names?

of course not, that would be silly. the important thing that you missed is to distance oneself from those individuals; one rotten apple spoils the crate. GOP seems to like "being the party of conspiracy theorists". Others claim to not know anything about .."this qanon, am i saying that right?". so there's also ignorants.

Do you think that there are no Democrat members of the house that fall into that catagory?

i'm 100% certain not a single democrat believes, trump should be president or that democrats eat babies

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Americans?

Touche...

In all seriousness, though, Americans have become accustomed to cheep sh!t made by foreign indentured servants and mass-produced crappy food.

We'd be better off as a nation if big box stores went away and we refused to import any more Chinese crap.

I'm all my travels to other countries, I've noticed they have better food because it is sourced more locally and is fresh. Whether it is Japan, Korea, Australia, Spain, or any other country Ice been to, the quality is higher. Bright orange egg yolks. Bread freshly baked. Coffee served properly. High quality seafood. It's much better quality than our Wonder bread, Folgers, McDonald's, etc.

That having been said, other products are just sturdier when made here in the US. But people would rather spend a lot less and then replace multiple times target than spending more just once.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

average americans. The gentlemen making their point for the previous administration clearly belong to the 1% - why else would one defend policy like this?

Policy like what?

Most Americans would agree with Trump's policies. If you framed the question in a way that didn't reveal they're Trump's doing, even those who oppose him would agree with the policies.

What's not to like about keeping more of your paycheck instead of paying higher taxes? What's not to like about preventing illegal immigration? What not to like about placing your own citizens' interests above those of other countries? What's not to like about not starting any new wars? What's not to like about a president who donated his salary to government agencies to reduce the tax burden on citizens?

Most Americans are tired of being presented with political candidates who are worthless. Who are happy to lie to get elected and then do exactly the opposite of what their constituents want them to do. Who do things that benefit other nations because of political or financial benefits to themselves and their families, friends, and allies at the expense of their own constituents. Pelosi, Biden, Schumer, McConnell, etc. have been in office for *decades* and have achieved nothing for their constituents. Omar, Tlaib, AOC are new but instead of working to make things better, they spend most of their efforts playing the victim and blaming conservatives from other states for problems caused by their own constituents. These are not statesmen working for the people - these are attention-seeking narcissists.

Joe Burden spent *decades* in the Senate and achieved nothing. He's not going to do anything now. In fact, the only thing he's achieved has been looking his pockets - Hunter is getting a book deal. Likewise Harris's homely stepdaughter was awarded a modeling contract. If they really were about service, there would be no book deal or modeling contract - a simple "thanks, but no" would suffice to get the message across.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

of course not, that would be silly. the important thing that you missed is to distance oneself from those individuals; one rotten apple spoils the crate. GOP seems to like "being the party of conspiracy theorists".

Other that Rep. Green who are those individuals?

Others claim to not know anything about .."this qanon, am i saying that right?". so there's also ignorants.

So now if you don't know about a conspiracy theory you are ingnorant? Guess I better study up. Will there be a test?

i'm 100% certain not a single democrat believes, trump should be president or that democrats eat babies

Of course not, that would be silly.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

[...] Of course not, that would be silly.

Personally I agree, but "Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds". Fifty. six. percent.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=3b540d75231d
edit: This was in september 2020. People identifying themselves as "republican" (not members of GOP) are about 30 percent believing in quanon theories. Whoever makes those surveys. This survey could also be a conspiracy of course

I first thought that like Trump the republican party did not want to lose any voters, so Proud boys, quanon or whoever queers were just accepted for the numbers and votes, and not driven away. But if they really believe in this...

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Personally I agree, but "Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds". Fifty. six. percent.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=3b540d75231d
edit: This was in september 2020. People identifying themselves as "republican" (not members of GOP) are about 30 percent believing in quanon theories. Whoever makes those surveys. This survey could also be a conspiracy of course

I first thought that like Trump the republican party did not want to lose any voters, so Proud boys, quanon or whoever queers were just accepted for the numbers and votes, and not driven away. But if they really believe in this...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/16/us/fl...ntl/index.html

"’It’s difficult to break out of that mindset’
Still, most adherents demonstrate plenty of anti-scientific tendencies. It’s hard to find a flat Earther who doesn’t believe most other conspiracies under the sun; a flat-Earth conference is invariably also a gathering of anti-vaxxers, 9/11 truthers and Illuminati subscribers, to name a few.

It’s that hyper-skeptical mindset that helps flat earthers answer the big questions – like who’s hiding the true shape of the planet from us?

“The ruling elite, from the royal family to the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds … all of those groups that run the world, they’re in on it,” says Weiss."

Personally I don't get why so many have this deep distrust in science. Sure, it's healthy to be skeptical about things, but at some point it gets too propped up with barely supported hypotheses to stand on it's own weight.

[August]

Originally Posted by 3catcircus

Policy like what?

Most Americans would agree with Trump's policies. If you framed the question in a way that didn't reveal they're Trump's doing, even those who oppose him would agree with the policies.

What's not to like about keeping more of your paycheck instead of paying higher taxes? What's not to like about preventing illegal immigration? What not to like about placing your own citizens' interests above those of other countries? What's not to like about not starting any new wars? What's not to like about a president who donated his salary to government agencies to reduce the tax burden on citizens?

Most Americans are tired of being presented with political candidates who are worthless. Who are happy to lie to get elected and then do exactly the opposite of what their constituents want them to do. Who do things that benefit other nations because of political or financial benefits to themselves and their families, friends, and allies at the expense of their own constituents. Pelosi, Biden, Schumer, McConnell, etc. have been in office for *decades* and have achieved nothing for their constituents. Omar, Tlaib, AOC are new but instead of working to make things better, they spend most of their efforts playing the victim and blaming conservatives from other states for problems caused by their own constituents. These are not statesmen working for the people - these are attention-seeking narcissists.

Joe Burden spent *decades* in the Senate and achieved nothing. He's not going to do anything now. In fact, the only thing he's achieved has been looking his pockets - Hunter is getting a book deal. Likewise Harris's homely stepdaughter was awarded a modeling contract. If they really were about service, there would be no book deal or modeling contract - a simple "thanks, but no" would suffice to get the message across.

This ^

[August]

Originally Posted by u crank

So now if you don't know about a conspiracy theory you are ingnorant? Guess I better study up. Will there be a test?

I'm a pretty conservative guy with pretty conservative friends and call me ignorant but i had never heard of qanon, the proud boys, the "alt-right" or the many others that the left has been clutching their pearls over. I don't deny that they do or could exist (you can find groups with all sorts of viewpoints if you look hard enough) but I wonder how these groups could be the giant threat that they are made out to be when they are so small they were relatively unknown.

Unless of course this is all just a way to increase the power of the government. Talk of reducing or eliminating the right to free speech and a host of other basic American liberties is now being promoted by the same pearl clutchers and they are using these previously obscure groups as the justification.

I suspect this supposed threat will never really materialize but the loss of our rights will be permanent.

[Onkel Neal]

Same here, wth is qanon? Seems like the democrats know more about this than me or people I know. All these flakey extremists groups are small in numbers yet the msm and democrats, snowflakes and SJW blow them out of proportion. Another case of susceptible people being manipulated by msm and political liars.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Personally I agree, but "Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds". Fifty. six. percent.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=3b540d75231d
edit: This was in september 2020. People identifying themselves as "republican" (not members of GOP) are about 30 percent believing in quanon theories. Whoever makes those surveys. This survey could also be a conspiracy of course

I first thought that like Trump the republican party did not want to lose any voters, so Proud boys, quanon or whoever queers were just accepted for the numbers and votes, and not driven away. But if they really believe in this...

It's true but people are easily led to believe almost anything. And members of the Congress of the USA are not exempt. Why it was not that far back in history that almost every Democrat member of Congress including the leadership believed that President Trump was a Russian asset and that he was elected to office with the assistance of Vlad Putin. Some of those Democrats actually had information that it was not true but continued to spout this consiracy theory on TV almost daily. That guy was Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Ca). Schiff also claimed that he had evidence of this theory but of course he never shared it.

So let's ask a question. Which conspiracy theory, Rep. Green's idiot belief in Q-Anon or Rep. Schiff's idiot belief in a Russian under every bed did or will do more harm?

Imagine for a second that the stars lined up for the Dems and they used the Russian collusion accusation to have Trump removed from office. No amount of belief in any Q-Anon nonsense would have come close to the harm that would have done to the American Republic. But these conspiracy believers were doing everything they could to make it happen. And remember ... they were true believers.

And remarkably few if any have admitted that they were wrong. And many people including a close friend of mine still believe this is true. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to have to work really hard to catch up to the Dems in Congress if she is going to top them.

[Sonicfire1981]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Same here, wth is qanon? Seems like the democrats know more about this than me or people I know. All these flakey extremists groups are small in numbers yet the msm and democrats, snowflakes and SJW blow them out of proportion. Another case of susceptible people being manipulated by msm and political liars.

That just shows how important education is and a free and unbiased media. mixing ones news-outlets to have a broad view on information is the next best thing. watching Tucker Carlson although it hurts, for example.
the majority of those groups might be small in number (which is untrue - there's a broad range of white supremacists of all sorts of color^^), but they are violent, armed and dangerous. Do you happen to know how many votes the NSDAP received back in the day?

and as a sidenote: do you (not you personally, neil) really believe to be informed enough to call and opose everything that gets called "socialism"?


ignorance isn't really strength, you know.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

.. there's a broad range of white supremacists of all sorts of color^

Do you realize just how silly that statement sounds? Care to rephrase or is this yet another Orwellian Democrat concept we now have to consider as "settled science"?

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Sonicfire1981

That just shows how important education is and a free and unbiased media.

It's too bad but both of those ships have sailed.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by skidman

Yeah, whatever. Still this does not explain, what El Whacko referred to: Comparing the incidence for Italy and the US it is obvious that a country hit very hard in the beginning is doing much better now than the US.



Is this a "Trump effect"? Don't know, maybe it's a "people like 3catcircus effect"?

Countries like Italy are doing much better because the first wave killed all the susceptible elderly and the next wave affects younger, healthier people. The first wave wouldn't have been as bad for Italy if they didn't have multiple generations in the same house - healthier people bring it home with them and then infect their parents or grandparents or great-grandparents.



Italy has a population of roughly 60 million. The US has a population of roughly 330 million. That's a five-fold difference in population. Your graph shows roughly 40,000/million in Italy and 80,000/million in the US. When you consider the difference in population, roughly 2x as many cases for 5x the population isn't a bad ratio. Especially since we don't *really* know how many actual cases because, at least in the US, for a while, multiple positives of the same individual were reported as separate cases and those in close proximity to positives were also counted as cases - and no one has gone back and normalized the data.

The seasonal impact again. There is absolutely no evidence of a strong seasonal effect, the contrary seems to be right:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18150-z

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/...-cold-weather/


https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021...to-be-seasonal


https://bioengineer.org/global-analy...9-is-seasonal/


https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-c...armer-weather/


I'd say a host of different entities all reporting similar information that this will probably be seasonal - and many of them recent articles trumps an article from this past summer.

It might be inconsistent, there is however no evidence of a systematic and purposely overassessment of infections and fatalities, the contrary is true:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18272-4

Who said anything about overassessment? Of *course* the number of infected is higher than those to be lab-confirmed as infected. Which bolsters the argument that CFR and IFR are an order magnitude lower than the authorities report - that is - more people actually infected = a smaller percentage of those infected need hospitalization or end up dying.

You are a victim of disinformation:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/so...19-death-toll/

Really? The good Dr. Birx disagrees with you:


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...19_death.html#!


When you get extra money for covid, every death with covid can be counted as from covid.


https://www.cdc.gov/cpr/readiness/funding-covid.htm

Rubbish and again not backed up by any scientific evidence:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...irus-variants/

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal...ou-should-know


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...im/ar-BB19O5Ca


https://www.newscientist.com/article...dont-know-why/


This is common-sense Biology 101: it is desirable, if you are a virus, to be able to spread amongst more people without killing them or making them so sick that they are isolated because that means you get replicated to a greater extent.

Let's take a look at the deaths then: We see the influence of the so called British mutant and we see the second/third wave has produced more deaths in almost all countries. More infections = more deaths. What was your point again?



You think this is a political subject, but it isn't. Biochemistry is truth. The mathematics behind epidemiological statistics and modeling is factual. You might not like the outcome, but fantasizing about a conspiracy that uses the pandemic for a political agenda is ridiculous.

You are showing a *cumulative* chart - the numbers can *only* go up. No one is denying that people get sick and die. What no one wants to talk about or think about is what was going on before covid when no one was actually paying attention to the details. For decades, health organizations have never actually performed laboratory tests for everyone who dies from a respiratory illness. They've all pretty much been suspected cases diagnosed based upon symptoms. Below is from the 2017-2018 flu season, but it still holds regardless of season.



"While flu deaths in children are reported to CDC, flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)-attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu. During the 2017-2018 season, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) was at or above the epidemic threshold for 16 consecutive weeks. During the past five seasons, the average number of weeks this indicator was above threshold was 11 (range of 7 to 15 weeks). Nationally, mortality attributed to P&I exceeded 10.0% for four consecutive weeks, peaking at 10.8% during the week ending January 20, 2018.
As it does for the numbers of flu cases, doctor’s visits and hospitalizations, CDC also estimates deaths in the United States using mathematical modeling. CDC estimates that from 2010-2011 to 2013-2014, influenza-associated deaths in the United States ranged from a low of 12,000 (during 2011-2012) to a high of 56,000 (during 2012-2013). Death certificate data and weekly influenza virus surveillance information was used to estimate how many flu-related deaths occurred among people whose underlying cause of death on their death certificate included respiratory or circulatory causes. For more information, see Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States and CDC’s Disease Burden of Influenza page."


No one knows how many died from a specific respiratory disease because they're all lumped in. For all we know, the 2018-2019 flu season could have been the first instance of covid-19 occurring. We have evidence that it was in the wild in the fall of 2019, which means it was likely circulating the year prior as well.



Why did the CDC report minimal flu cases in 2020 but tons of covid deaths? Explain to me how social distancing and masks are effective against flu but not covid when they are transmitted exactly the same way.



No one is saying this is just politics - what I'm saying is that science has been politicized, compounded by "experts" who've forgotten the basics of science (or never understood them to begin with).


1. What CT would you use for PCR tests? How do you know if it is live virus or viral debris when PCR does nothing bu replicate genetic material irrespective.

2. Explain how masks will stop someone from being infected when viral particles are smaller than mask weaves (even N95s)? You may get a smaller viral load from the portion that is contained in exhalate that is partially blocked, but it won't 100% stop you from being infected. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23505369/
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ars-cov-2.html

3. Explain why lockdowns preventing people from being outdoors in sunlight is a good thing when studies have shown that inadequate levels of vitamin D can contribute to severity of symptoms from covid infection. It only takes 10-15 minutes without sunscreen for the body to turn cholesterol into vitamin D.