US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

We arent talking about 10 people or 100,000 people claiming fraud...

we are talking 10s of millions of people

This is irrelevant. Those 10s of millions base their claims on what? On claims made by a very few, claims that 10s of millions of people believe because they want Trump to stay, because they hate the opposition, because they believe whatever mad conspiracy theory they read on the internet.

In the 10s sounds about right.

[u crank]

On January 20th Joe Biden will become the President. But even now Biden could do something to heal the nation and take the temperature down. He is the leader of his party and he should tell his fellow Democrats in Congress that any attempt to remove Trump from office at this late moment or punish him after he is out of office would be a political mistake. An impeachment proceeding conducted after Trump is a private citizen would fail and it would halt all other business in the Senate. Pursuing impeachment would doom Biden’s oft-claimed desire for unity and healing. By stopping the partisan revenge tactics Biden would look very Presidential and possibly help America avoid the seemingly certain backlash that probably will result in chaos.

It would also throw water on the belief that Biden is just a placeholder and it would prove that he is his own man. Joe should put his words of healing and unity into action. It could be a defining moment for the office of the President.

[Catfish]

I agree. Do you think Trump could also add anything positive to the situation?

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by u crank

On January 20th Joe Biden will become the President. But even now Biden could do something to heal the nation and take the temperature down. He is the leader of his party and he should tell his fellow Democrats in Congress that any attempt to remove Trump from office at this late moment or punish him after he is out of office would be a political mistake. An impeachment proceeding conducted after Trump is a private citizen would fail and it would halt all other business in the Senate. Pursuing impeachment would doom Biden’s oft-claimed desire for unity and healing. By stopping the partisan revenge tactics Biden would look very Presidential and possibly help America avoid the seemingly certain backlash that probably will result in chaos.

It would also throw water on the belief that Biden is just a placeholder and it would prove that he is his own man. Joe should put his words of healing and unity into action. It could be a defining moment for the office of the President.

He could, and likely should, but I think it would fall on deaf ears.

At this point I don't see any good coming from investigation either as those demanding it would only accept one outcome. Wrong answer would equal more traitors and a new level opening in the rabbit hole.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

You dont need evidence! the people demanding the investigation is enough!

More than half the people want it! why cant we have it? is there no transparency? Do you not believe in it?

We arent talking about 10 people or 100,000 people claiming fraud...

we are talking 10s of millions of people

You claim a majority of your people for your cause?! Actually the huge majority seems to not not support you and Trumps Ragnarök behaviour, and Biden won the popular vote by 81.2 to 74.1 million, and the electoral college by 306 to 232. Majorities look differently.

And courts have dismissed challenges by the dozens and dozens by now. Between 50 and 100, I lost track. Republican election officials rejected to confirm Trump's claims on fraud. Election workers were threatened with death by Trumpist mobs. Republican governors in battklegorudn states refused tio support Trump'S claims. In certain battlegroudn state, there were recounts. Several ones in some cases. Giving Biden even greater leads afterwards.



There is evidence, plenty of it. And it speaks against you and Trump.

Actually there also is attempted election steal going on, even by the use of open and lethal violence now. And it is you and your side attempting to steal the election. The perpetrators - are you and the likes of you. The deaths at the Capitol count in your guilt. The violence to come is your crime that you will enflict. You are not just Mitläufer, blind followers - spreading the lies actively makes you accomplices.

Lies, lies, lies. The Holy Gospel according to Trump. All hail the many-tongued king.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

I agree. Do you think Trump could also add anything positive to the situation?

No doubt he could and should. But his legacy has been established and his time is up. As I said this could be a singular moment for a US President. Trump has no power. Biden has all the power. He should use it.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

He could, and likely should, but I think it would fall on deaf ears.

It would have to be more than words. And it probably would mean a confrontation with leaders in Congress. You can't have this mixed message ... Biden talking about healing and unity and his counterparts in Congress persuing their doomed path of revenge. Personally I don't think that Biden has the willpower or the sense to do it.

At this point I don't see any good coming from investigation either as those demanding it would only accept one outcome. Wrong answer would equal more traitors and a new level opening in the rabbit hole.

True. Both sides should drop it and move on.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

On January 20th Joe Biden will become the President. But even now Biden could do something to heal the nation and take the temperature down. He is the leader of his party and he should tell his fellow Democrats in Congress that any attempt to remove Trump from office at this late moment or punish him after he is out of office would be a political mistake. An impeachment proceeding conducted after Trump is a private citizen would fail and it would halt all other business in the Senate. Pursuing impeachment would doom Biden’s oft-claimed desire for unity and healing. By stopping the partisan revenge tactics Biden would look very Presidential and possibly help America avoid the seemingly certain backlash that probably will result in chaos.

It would also throw water on the belief that Biden is just a placeholder and it would prove that he is his own man. Joe should put his words of healing and unity into action. It could be a defining moment for the office of the President.

The catholic church argues in a similiar way when wanting to dodge prosecution of the pedophiles wearing its robes.

When one follows your demand, all law enforcement and prosecution of crime can be stopped and dismantled, courts and attorneys and police would not be needed anymore, and never again will anyone ever be held accountable for what he says and tells anymore, never, no matter how inflammatory, how fraudulent, how offensive, how lying his words are and what they motivate people for and what crimes they excuse.



Anything goes! The law of the colts again! Who draws the fastest, is right.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Von Due

This is irrelevant. Those 10s of millions base their claims on what? On claims made by a very few, claims that 10s of millions of people believe because they want Trump to stay, because they hate the opposition, because they believe whatever mad conspiracy theory they read on the internet.

In the 10s sounds about right.

Yep. If there were evidence, it would not need 10s of thousands or millions giving it. Already one would be enough.

[Skybird]

Truths, finally revealed!

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ry-ncna1253819

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The catholic church argues in a similiar way when wanting to dodge prosecution of the pedophiles wearing its robes.

What a sick comparison.

When one follows your demand, all law enforcement and prosecution of crime can be stopped and dismantled, courts and attorneys and police would not be needed anymore, and never again will anyone ever be held accountable for what he says and tells anymore, never, no matter how inflammatory, how fraudulent, how offensive, how lying his words are and what they motivate people for and what crimes they excuse.

You are being silly. And reckless. Which would you prefer, a divided nation with a President who lets it burn or a nation with a leader that at least tries to heal and make things better? You would feel right at home with some Democrat members of Congress or left wing media types.

[Wolferz]

Covid is a meat tenderizer

Originally Posted by Skybird

Truths, finally revealed!

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ry-ncna1253819

That's it! It's aliens! Causing all the ruckus in their herd.

Or maybe it's like Jupiter ascending and we're about to be harvested b y our own kind.
We can only hope that Jupiter cleans that toilet bowl labeled Washington DC.
Covid is a meat tenderizer.
To serve man is a cookbook!
Run!!!!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

What a sick comparison.

Forgiveness, man! We all must be self-sacrifical lambs.

You are being silly. And reckless. Which would you prefer, a divided nation with a President who lets it burn or a nation with a leader that at least tries to heal and make things better? You would feel right at home with some Democrat members of Congress or left wing media types.

Actually I believe in personal liability. In the need for the rule of a law. In the need of justice before pardoning.

Before forgiveness comes the confession of guilt.
Before confession comes repentance.
Before repentance comes realization.

No realization - no repentance.
No repentance - no confession.
No confession - no forgiving.

You see, I tick quite simple.

[3catcircus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

You only have one problem: you cannot come up with evidence proving your claim. Investigations there have been more than enough. All the courts are against you, are biased against you, are part of the conspiracy to steal your vote? That is paranoia at its best.

Claim is not good enough. Claim can even be wrong from A to Z, can be a lied. Like in Trump's many cases. Lies, lies and mroe lies, since years. Thats why no court in the world worth its name accepts claim as evidence.

The burden of evidence is on you, you raise the claim. Prove it. You had opportunities by the dozens. There have been recounts and rechecks and investigations. You do not accept their conclsuions since they did not show what you want to see being shown - your constructed reality proven right.

They just did not come to the results you want to see. And that is what you do not like. You disagree with reality and want it to bend on your behalf. It will not bnend. And so some people will flip out completely.

I would agree except for the fact that evidence was not allowed to be presented to the courts due to procedurally blocking them. Most cases were thrown out because judges ruled that those bringing suit had no standing because they filed too soon or too late or f
we're being filed by the wrong person. In other cases, you had judges who should have recused themselves making rulings - such as the sister of Stacey Abrams ruling on suits brought in GA over the election, when Abrams actively promoted registering Dem voters in the GA runoff election and was an elector in the presidential election.

If there is no concern of the election having been done cleanly, why wouldn't state ejection officials welcome the entering of evidence to be shown as not supporting the lawsuits? Why wouldn't they welcome doing full audits of ballots, proving the tallies were accurate? The evidence against Trump resulting in the Mueller investigation was less, with circular logic of it's veracity, and resulted in a waste if millions of dollars and no proving of him having dinner anything wrong.

The way the Dems are operating is right out of the Marx/Lenin/Stalin playbook - accusing your political enemies of doing that which you have actually done.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Truths, finally revealed!

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...ry-ncna1253819

Yea there are a lot of outlandish and dangerous conspiracy theories out there. There was one that was wholly embraced by Democrat politicians, Never Trumpers and prominent members of the legacy media. I guess gullability doesn't depend on education or high level employment. It just needs a cause to pursue.

The Rise and Fall of the ‘Steele Dossier’
A case study in mass hysteria and media credulity.

https://www.thenation.com/article/po...teele-dossier/

Despite its outlandish assertions and partisan provenance, Steele’s work product somehow became a road map for Democratic leaders, media outlets, and, most egregiously, intelligence officials carrying out the Russia investigation.

If the Steele dossier’s far-fetched claims were not enough reason to dismiss it with ridicule, another obvious marker should have set off alarms. Reading the Steele dossier chronologically, a glaring pattern emerges: Steele has no advance knowledge of anything that later proved to be true, and, just as tellingly, many of his most explosive claims appear only after some approximate prediction has come out in public form.

It was a joke played on a partisan and gullible group of people who should have known better. They did far more to sully their reputations than a few Q Anon nut jobs. These people made absolutly no attempt to verify what Steele was saying. So much for investigative journalism. The list of Democrat politicians who swore by Steele's work is to long to list here.

While the Steele affair has triggered at least some government-level contrition and nominal reforms, the same cannot be said about the prominent media and political figures who promoted his ludicrous claims with equal credulity.

When we now see MAGA followers consumed by their own election conspiracy theories, it behooves us to remember that, while there is no equivalence to the “Stop the Steal” mob violence, many liberals were misled in their own way for Trump’s entire four years. Beyond our mutual proclivity for embracing comforting delusions, we might acknowledge that we share something else with Trump supporters: party elites, Democrats and Republicans alike, who have turned to deranged, xenophobic fantasies rather than taking responsibility for their own election failures.