Request urgent lessons in submerged evasion techniques

Macel · 06-24-06, 08:31 PM

I found silent running/no or slow speed and depth to be good. You're still bound to get pinged and homed in on - And when that happens, wait for the pinging to stop.. Usually you'll hear the boat coming overhead just before the pinging is about to stop - thats when you hit flank speed and do a 90 degree turn. If you've got more room below you, diving helps too. Since you're changing your position on 3 different axis, it gets you away from the DCs a lot faster, and its way too late for the destroyers to compensate for your course changes.

Immacolata · 06-25-06, 04:24 AM

So what when you have two or more on your tail? I find they chase me forever. There is no getting out of their vice, seeing that the so-called simulation doesn't take thermal layers and depth charges into account when applying the DDs laser sighted onniscient range finder on my tub.

Yes I am blaming the game for my many defeats ^_^

Stiebler · 06-25-06, 04:27 AM

Avoiding escorts is much harder with NYGM TW 2.0 than with stock SH3, but once you have the knack it becomes quite possible. Suggestions below certainly ought to apply to the original query, where 'only' stock escort sensors are being used.

Firstly, from June 1943 everything becomes tougher, in terms of more aircraft, larger numbers of convoy escorts, improved escort sensors. This accurately reflects reality; survival rate among real U-boats collapsed at this point. The trick is to aim to survive, rather than to sink shipping. Like real U-boat commanders, make sure that your U-boat is fitted out with long-range electric torpedoes that will run in patterns (essentially electric FAT types - the availability of these at base in NYGM now accurately reflects late war load-outs for electric FATs; make sure you grab them at base), and DO NOT use air/steam types against convoys, especially during daylight hours.

When you attack a convoy, close submerged at silent running, maximum 2 kts. If you wish to survive, it is certainly wiser not to approach closer than 4000 meters. Fire salvoes of pattern-running torpedoes from outside the escort screen. This is accurate to reality. At once, without waiting for observation of results, dive to 200 meters (assuming water is deep enough).

If you are in very shallow water (less than 25 meters), the game appears to mimick reality, in that the escort sensors become less accurate, so that attacks under these conditions are also feasible. However, attacks on closely guarded convoys in fairly shallow water (ca. 40-100 meters) are simply suicide, if there is a good escort defence.

The convoy escorts have two states: careless and alert. The careless state applies before you are sighted and before anything happens to the convoy. So, while your torpedoes are still running, speed up to 1/3 ahead (max 4 kts) and turn away from the convoy. Provided no escort is closer than about 1500 meters, you are unlikely to be noticed. However, once the torpedoes strike their target (or are seen, if air/steam type), the escorts become alert, and their detection range greatly increases. Slow down to slow ahead (max 3 kts), set course at 180 degrees to convoy (or to nearest escort, if less than 2000 meters away).

Keep an eye on the proximity of the nearest escorts using hydrophones, sonar man or stealth meter, whichever you prefer. Once within medium range (defined as 3000 meters in the game), reduce to 2 kts, keeping the stern end facing the escort. Once the escort is less than 1000 meters away (short range), reduce to 1 kt. Still silent running.

Now, a big problem is that you cannot turn at 1 kt as fast as the escort, so the escort can easily pass you by on one flank (and detect your broad beam) faster than you can turn to expose your stern to it. You have to try to guess when to start turning, but a useful trick to remember is this:
You do not have to keep running into an escort; you can use slow or 1/3 reverse engines to increase the distance from an escort that is ahead of you.

When an escort does begin an attack run, you must turn sharply to port or starboard. At 200 meters, maximum rudder at standard speed is sufficient. When the depthcharges drop, maintain speed until they cease rumbling, then slow up quickly, again showing your stern to the nearest enemy. I've found it's not too difficult to evade depthcharges with these maneouvres, even if there are 2-3 escorts present so that it is impossible to show your stern to all of them.

Finally, you should be able to slip away at 1 kt (again, this is reality). Don't try to speed things up by going prematurely to a higher speed.

Ironically, perhaps, the big problem is slipping away *after* the escorts have run out of depthcharges - they do run out eventually, although it often feels like it takes ages. Then you can't escape in the noise of the depthcharges. I've found then that just stepping up the time compression to as high as it will go, while randomly veering left and right at 1 kt, will finally shake of the pursuer(s); the escorts seem to lose interest after a while probably because their contact on the U-boat is worse than is apparent from the pings, their closenesss and the stealth meter.

I hope that helps - especially after all this typing!

Stiebler.

NYGM Tonnage War Mod - Leading Edge Realism

Immacolata · 06-25-06, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiebler

Finally, you should be able to slip away at 1 kt (again, this is reality). Don't try to speed things up by going prematurely to a higher speed.

DOH! Ive had this game since april last year. And just now - NOW - I remember I can flip the speed dial ... ARGH. Ive been trying to sneak away with the stock slow speed setting.

Quote:

I hope that helps - especially after all this typing!

Stiebler.

Well at least you made me aware of a crucial interface feature

But yes, it did. Thanks, I was going nuts over them destroyers. Especially after they are out of tin cans. I still can't get away from this flower corvette. It pings me, always knows where I am, no matter what I do. Change depth, run silent, do a knuckle, tie myself into knots.

Eichenlaub · 06-25-06, 06:29 AM

Gentlemen: thank you all for contributing. I shall try your tips out now and see if my performance improves. I'll let you know later.

Kind regards,

Eichenlaub

tbarak · 06-25-06, 08:51 AM

No reason to disparage as I think the intent of the designers was to make fighting late in the war very hard. This is of course done to mirror reality.

I think the only things you can do is be selective and realize that some convoys may be too well defended to attack. Attacking in bad weather and at night helps, and take your shot and run like hell. If you're caught inside a convoy, steam directly underneath a merchant, one that's wounded is ideal. That way the escorts can't touch you and they will eventually leave. You can then finish off the wounded merchant at your leisure.

Attacking from greater range helps and take good advantage of the acoustic homers and FATS. The decoys can really save you if used properly. Also I don't hesitate to shoot at the destroyers anymore especially when I think I can't escape them. I steam at periscope depth and give them as inviting a target as possible. Wait until they're close, about 500 - 700 metres and let 'em have it with a stern shot, using an electric eel, magnetic impact. They almost always go down with one shot. You can eventually thin out the escort screen one-by-one and hopefully you have enough fuel - and patience - to mop up the convoy. It's very time consuming and you really have to be patient, but it is possible.

And I think you have to resign yourself to the fact that the glory days (the happy times) are over by 1944, so lower tonnage scores are to be expected.

Txema · 06-25-06, 01:02 PM

Stiebler,

Quote:

Ironically, perhaps, the big problem is slipping away *after* the escorts have run out of depthcharges - they do run out eventually, although it often feels like it takes ages. Then you can't escape in the noise of the depthcharges.

Is the noise of the depth charges really modelled in SH3 to make the hydrophones and ASDIC loose contact as it happened in real life???

Txema

Sir Big Jugs · 06-25-06, 02:16 PM

God help me, I'm in -39, in Scapa in a Type VIIB and I've got HI of 57%, am in 20m deep with 7 destroyers pinging me!

S O S!

06-24-06, 08:31 PM	#1
Macel Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	. I found silent running/no or slow speed and depth to be good. You're still bound to get pinged and homed in on - And when that happens, wait for the pinging to stop.. Usually you'll hear the boat coming overhead just before the pinging is about to stop - thats when you hit flank speed and do a 90 degree turn. If you've got more room below you, diving helps too. Since you're changing your position on 3 different axis, it gets you away from the DCs a lot faster, and its way too late for the destroyers to compensate for your course changes.

06-25-06, 04:24 AM	#2
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	So what when you have two or more on your tail? I find they chase me forever. There is no getting out of their vice, seeing that the so-called simulation doesn't take thermal layers and depth charges into account when applying the DDs laser sighted onniscient range finder on my tub. Yes I am blaming the game for my many defeats ^_^ Last edited by Immacolata; 06-25-06 at 04:30 AM.

06-25-06, 06:29 AM	#5
Eichenlaub Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nijmegen Posts: 132 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Gentlemen: thank you all for contributing. I shall try your tips out now and see if my performance improves. I'll let you know later. Kind regards, Eichenlaub __________________ "Despite living in a country where soft-drugs, prostitution, gay-marriage and euthanasia are all legal, I've never felt any inclination towards any of them." When SHIV hits the scene, we should not fear the double D Geisha escort...we should welcome her...

06-25-06, 02:16 PM	#8
Sir Big Jugs Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 895 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	God help me, I'm in -39, in Scapa in a Type VIIB and I've got HI of 57%, am in 20m deep with 7 destroyers pinging me! S O S! __________________

06-25-06, 04:27 AM	#3
Stiebler Fuel Supplier Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,237 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 4	Avoiding escorts is much harder with NYGM TW 2.0 than with stock SH3, but once you have the knack it becomes quite possible. Suggestions below certainly ought to apply to the original query, where 'only' stock escort sensors are being used. Firstly, from June 1943 everything becomes tougher, in terms of more aircraft, larger numbers of convoy escorts, improved escort sensors. This accurately reflects reality; survival rate among real U-boats collapsed at this point. The trick is to aim to survive, rather than to sink shipping. Like real U-boat commanders, make sure that your U-boat is fitted out with long-range electric torpedoes that will run in patterns (essentially electric FAT types - the availability of these at base in NYGM now accurately reflects late war load-outs for electric FATs; make sure you grab them at base), and DO NOT use air/steam types against convoys, especially during daylight hours. When you attack a convoy, close submerged at silent running, maximum 2 kts. If you wish to survive, it is certainly wiser not to approach closer than 4000 meters. Fire salvoes of pattern-running torpedoes from outside the escort screen. This is accurate to reality. At once, without waiting for observation of results, dive to 200 meters (assuming water is deep enough). If you are in very shallow water (less than 25 meters), the game appears to mimick reality, in that the escort sensors become less accurate, so that attacks under these conditions are also feasible. However, attacks on closely guarded convoys in fairly shallow water (ca. 40-100 meters) are simply suicide, if there is a good escort defence. The convoy escorts have two states: careless and alert. The careless state applies before you are sighted and before anything happens to the convoy. So, while your torpedoes are still running, speed up to 1/3 ahead (max 4 kts) and turn away from the convoy. Provided no escort is closer than about 1500 meters, you are unlikely to be noticed. However, once the torpedoes strike their target (or are seen, if air/steam type), the escorts become alert, and their detection range greatly increases. Slow down to slow ahead (max 3 kts), set course at 180 degrees to convoy (or to nearest escort, if less than 2000 meters away). Keep an eye on the proximity of the nearest escorts using hydrophones, sonar man or stealth meter, whichever you prefer. Once within medium range (defined as 3000 meters in the game), reduce to 2 kts, keeping the stern end facing the escort. Once the escort is less than 1000 meters away (short range), reduce to 1 kt. Still silent running. Now, a big problem is that you cannot turn at 1 kt as fast as the escort, so the escort can easily pass you by on one flank (and detect your broad beam) faster than you can turn to expose your stern to it. You have to try to guess when to start turning, but a useful trick to remember is this: You do not have to keep running into an escort; you can use slow or 1/3 reverse engines to increase the distance from an escort that is ahead of you. When an escort does begin an attack run, you must turn sharply to port or starboard. At 200 meters, maximum rudder at standard speed is sufficient. When the depthcharges drop, maintain speed until they cease rumbling, then slow up quickly, again showing your stern to the nearest enemy. I've found it's not too difficult to evade depthcharges with these maneouvres, even if there are 2-3 escorts present so that it is impossible to show your stern to all of them. Finally, you should be able to slip away at 1 kt (again, this is reality). Don't try to speed things up by going prematurely to a higher speed. Ironically, perhaps, the big problem is slipping away after the escorts have run out of depthcharges - they do run out eventually, although it often feels like it takes ages. Then you can't escape in the noise of the depthcharges. I've found then that just stepping up the time compression to as high as it will go, while randomly veering left and right at 1 kt, will finally shake of the pursuer(s); the escorts seem to lose interest after a while probably because their contact on the U-boat is worse than is apparent from the pings, their closenesss and the stealth meter. I hope that helps - especially after all this typing! Stiebler. NYGM Tonnage War Mod - Leading Edge Realism

06-25-06, 08:51 AM	#6
tbarak Sparky Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 151 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No reason to disparage as I think the intent of the designers was to make fighting late in the war very hard. This is of course done to mirror reality. I think the only things you can do is be selective and realize that some convoys may be too well defended to attack. Attacking in bad weather and at night helps, and take your shot and run like hell. If you're caught inside a convoy, steam directly underneath a merchant, one that's wounded is ideal. That way the escorts can't touch you and they will eventually leave. You can then finish off the wounded merchant at your leisure. Attacking from greater range helps and take good advantage of the acoustic homers and FATS. The decoys can really save you if used properly. Also I don't hesitate to shoot at the destroyers anymore especially when I think I can't escape them. I steam at periscope depth and give them as inviting a target as possible. Wait until they're close, about 500 - 700 metres and let 'em have it with a stern shot, using an electric eel, magnetic impact. They almost always go down with one shot. You can eventually thin out the escort screen one-by-one and hopefully you have enough fuel - and patience - to mop up the convoy. It's very time consuming and you really have to be patient, but it is possible. And I think you have to resign yourself to the fact that the glory days (the happy times) are over by 1944, so lower tonnage scores are to be expected.