Bugged Patrol Assignment? (Philippine Sea Crash)

propbeanie · 12-11-20, 07:59 PM

These "bugged" assignments can also happen if you changed the games configuration, such as you had a fully stock game, and applied a mod, but didn't delete the Save folder, you would probably run the risk of troubles with the game running correctly. Likewise if you remove a mod, and then try to use the Save from the modded game. The game runs of off the Save folder, and if it can't find the appropriate info, it will do strange things. It can get very frustrating, especially if you haven't played the game in a while, where there is an old Save folder from years back. Lord knows what's to be found in the dregs there... If you don't have much of a career going yet, you might be best off to delete the Save folder, and try again. It is generally "C:\Users \UserName \Documents \SH4" and all of the folders and file below that. You do lose all progress made thus far, as well as re-setting the display and other options in the game, but sometimes you do what you gotta do...

All that said, besides the modders making mistakes (who? me?...

), the devs also made mistakes in the game. There is one ship with no sonar indication, some will not allow a player to track them, though the sonarman can follow them. There are also some bad spawns that can happen in the stock game. It is by no means "perfect", but I wouldn't expect it to be. It actually does rather well for its age...

Nikdunaev · 12-12-20, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by propbeanie

These "bugged" assignments can also happen if you changed the games configuration, such as you had a fully stock game, and applied a mod, but didn't delete the Save folder, you would probably run the risk of troubles with the game running correctly. Likewise if you remove a mod, and then try to use the Save from the modded game. The game runs of off the Save folder, and if it can't find the appropriate info, it will do strange things. It can get very frustrating, especially if you haven't played the game in a while, where there is an old Save folder from years back. Lord knows what's to be found in the dregs there... If you don't have much of a career going yet, you might be best off to delete the Save folder, and try again. It is generally "C:\Users \UserName \Documents \SH4" and all of the folders and file below that. You do lose all progress made thus far, as well as re-setting the display and other options in the game, but sometimes you do what you gotta do...

All that said, besides the modders making mistakes (who? me?...

), the devs also made mistakes in the game. There is one ship with no sonar indication, some will not allow a player to track them, though the sonarman can follow them. There are also some bad spawns that can happen in the stock game. It is by no means "perfect", but I wouldn't expect it to be. It actually does rather well for its age...

Oh...

So, you are saying that certain bugged or corrupted save files can still cause trouble merely by existing, even when they are not being used at the time, is that right?

This is interesting, cause I did delete a few saves, that seemed to be abnormally crashy. In fact all the saves from that patrol, except the start at the home base.
Yet there are *no traces* of *any* mods anywhere. This install was *never* modded.

Could that be the reason it worked?
I mean, it worked at least once on the stock game.

Nikdunaev · 12-12-20, 03:23 PM

Also, out of curiosity, what about the commonly quoted thing about installing or removing mods at home base? Is that not enough to achieve stability?

KaleunMarco · 12-12-20, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikdunaev

Also, out of curiosity, what about the commonly quoted thing about installing or removing mods at home base? Is that not enough to achieve stability?

usually, yes.

however, from time to time, SH4 will attempt to do something and fail.

for example, i've been playing RFB without incident. 6 missions...no problems.
started a mission, played a while, saved before going to bed. woke up, reloaded the last save, no go. tried twice more. nope. reloaded the game at base and then reloaded the game i wanted, but no go. rebooted and then restarted the game and reloaded the last save, no go. i had to go back to the base-save to get it to go. why? NFI.

doing things like enabling LAA and not making config changes while on a mission eliminate the lion's share of CTD issues but not all.

it is kind of like driving your vehicle on the road. you keep your vehicle in good repair, with plenty of fuel. you wear seat belts and drive defensively and that will eliminate 99% of the risk of a collision. can you still be involved in a collision? you bet.

propbeanie · 12-13-20, 02:30 PM

Exactly, KaleunMarco... and "yes", the existence of a "bugged" Save can seemingly (though not always) influence the other Saves.

For whatever reason, the devs seemingly did not put any error checking into the Save routines. other than maybe MS dll stuff from the WinXP days. They do have one file in each of the Save folders that is a "counter" (file size), if you will, and that appears to be the only "check". The last Save will usually be written to two folders, but that appears to be it, as far as "integrity" goes, and whatever the game does while it writes the files. It seems that one little "hiccup" in the process will bonk the whole Save, yet not tell you about it. You find out when you go to re-load, what you thought was a Saved game. "Bad" data can include anything from a mod gone wrong, to an error in a ship config (which there are a few in the Stock game), to any one of a number of scenarios. This is NOT to say that most Saves are bad. Most are good, and definitely at a higher success rate than SH3 - but there is no consistency here.

A really odd thing can happen though, if you have a bad Save, and that is that if you go back to a previous Save and it loads, then go back to the Load menu and try the "bad" Save again, it will sometimes load fine. Absolutely no idea why that works. Someone just a couple of weeks ago mentioned loading the "Leaving Port", then stepped through all of the "bad" Saves (four of them??), and had success loading a Save that wouldn't load previously. Very strange.

As far as the Save process itself goes, you are better off saving while surfaced (not 100% necessary, and sometimes not possible). If you are submerged and have to Save, do so above the 500 foot depth. Below that, and your boat does not always come back up. Nothing like loading a Saved game, only to find that your sub is sinking, and won't stop going down... Try to Save when it is relatively quite. Let audio files finish playing, don't be on the sonar screen, etc. The simpler the screen displaying, the better. I will try to Save while on the NavMap with as little activity as possible showing, or on the Attack Map, Periscope screen, etc. Something that is not 3D. Again, this is not 100% necessary, and does not guarantee any semblence of success as far as I know. Not Saving too close to Land might help also (what, after all, is "too close"??). Don't have any ordnance enroute, and it is usually best to not have any repairs to boat damage outstanding, except that which cannot be repaired. Several aspects of the game run on "timers", and as such will re-set with a Save ("weather" is another). As an example, say the repair screen says it will take four hours to repair a leak in a compartment, and you Save at 3 hour and 52 minutes, with 8 minutes left in the process. When you reload that Save, you will have four hours and zero minutes to wait for the repair to be completed, not the 8 minutes that you expected. If you gotta leave the house though, say to pick-up the wife after work, you do whatcha gotta do

and expect to have the fours repair left to go on the re-load...

Probably the biggest thing, is do not overwrite a previous Save. ie: You leave port and Save the game with "3rdPatrol Tambor", or whatever. You encounter a Convoy, and Save the game prior to the attack, but use that same name "3rdPatrol Tambor", that would be an overwrite. Instead, use something like "3rdPatrolTambor01", "3rdPatrolTambor02", etc. That's another thing some of us do - no spaces in the names, though again, not 100% necessary, if at all... lol - I will also usually pause for about 10-30 seconds after Saving, and try to make certain the file is finished being written. Another thing is to NOT save the replay, unless you are Saving a SingleMission or WarPatrol for use as a "video". Saving the replay will result in a ~huge~ Save file, increasing the chance of an error, which will compound over time, sort of like mortgage interest ...

A lot of these points are leftovers from the SH3 days, and some folks ~never~ have a bit of trouble with Saves. Go figure...

Nikdunaev · 12-16-20, 05:39 PM

Thanks a lot for your help, everyone!

Nikdunaev · 12-16-20, 05:50 PM

By the way, I would assume, that the game clears the memory it was using, when it stops working, is that actually correct?

12-11-20, 07:59 PM	#1
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	These "bugged" assignments can also happen if you changed the games configuration, such as you had a fully stock game, and applied a mod, but didn't delete the Save folder, you would probably run the risk of troubles with the game running correctly. Likewise if you remove a mod, and then try to use the Save from the modded game. The game runs of off the Save folder, and if it can't find the appropriate info, it will do strange things. It can get very frustrating, especially if you haven't played the game in a while, where there is an old Save folder from years back. Lord knows what's to be found in the dregs there... If you don't have much of a career going yet, you might be best off to delete the Save folder, and try again. It is generally "C:\Users \UserName \Documents \SH4" and all of the folders and file below that. You do lose all progress made thus far, as well as re-setting the display and other options in the game, but sometimes you do what you gotta do... All that said, besides the modders making mistakes (who? me?... ), the devs also made mistakes in the game. There is one ship with no sonar indication, some will not allow a player to track them, though the sonarman can follow them. There are also some bad spawns that can happen in the stock game. It is by no means "perfect", but I wouldn't expect it to be. It actually does rather well for its age... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

12-13-20, 02:30 PM	#5
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Exactly, KaleunMarco... and "yes", the existence of a "bugged" Save can seemingly (though not always) influence the other Saves. For whatever reason, the devs seemingly did not put any error checking into the Save routines. other than maybe MS dll stuff from the WinXP days. They do have one file in each of the Save folders that is a "counter" (file size), if you will, and that appears to be the only "check". The last Save will usually be written to two folders, but that appears to be it, as far as "integrity" goes, and whatever the game does while it writes the files. It seems that one little "hiccup" in the process will bonk the whole Save, yet not tell you about it. You find out when you go to re-load, what you thought was a Saved game. "Bad" data can include anything from a mod gone wrong, to an error in a ship config (which there are a few in the Stock game), to any one of a number of scenarios. This is NOT to say that most Saves are bad. Most are good, and definitely at a higher success rate than SH3 - but there is no consistency here. A really odd thing can happen though, if you have a bad Save, and that is that if you go back to a previous Save and it loads, then go back to the Load menu and try the "bad" Save again, it will sometimes load fine. Absolutely no idea why that works. Someone just a couple of weeks ago mentioned loading the "Leaving Port", then stepped through all of the "bad" Saves (four of them??), and had success loading a Save that wouldn't load previously. Very strange. As far as the Save process itself goes, you are better off saving while surfaced (not 100% necessary, and sometimes not possible). If you are submerged and have to Save, do so above the 500 foot depth. Below that, and your boat does not always come back up. Nothing like loading a Saved game, only to find that your sub is sinking, and won't stop going down... Try to Save when it is relatively quite. Let audio files finish playing, don't be on the sonar screen, etc. The simpler the screen displaying, the better. I will try to Save while on the NavMap with as little activity as possible showing, or on the Attack Map, Periscope screen, etc. Something that is not 3D. Again, this is not 100% necessary, and does not guarantee any semblence of success as far as I know. Not Saving too close to Land might help also (what, after all, is "too close"??). Don't have any ordnance enroute, and it is usually best to not have any repairs to boat damage outstanding, except that which cannot be repaired. Several aspects of the game run on "timers", and as such will re-set with a Save ("weather" is another). As an example, say the repair screen says it will take four hours to repair a leak in a compartment, and you Save at 3 hour and 52 minutes, with 8 minutes left in the process. When you reload that Save, you will have four hours and zero minutes to wait for the repair to be completed, not the 8 minutes that you expected. If you gotta leave the house though, say to pick-up the wife after work, you do whatcha gotta do and expect to have the fours repair left to go on the re-load... Probably the biggest thing, is do not overwrite a previous Save. ie: You leave port and Save the game with "3rdPatrol Tambor", or whatever. You encounter a Convoy, and Save the game prior to the attack, but use that same name "3rdPatrol Tambor", that would be an overwrite. Instead, use something like "3rdPatrolTambor01", "3rdPatrolTambor02", etc. That's another thing some of us do - no spaces in the names, though again, not 100% necessary, if at all... lol - I will also usually pause for about 10-30 seconds after Saving, and try to make certain the file is finished being written. Another thing is to NOT save the replay, unless you are Saving a SingleMission or WarPatrol for use as a "video". Saving the replay will result in a ~huge~ Save file, increasing the chance of an error, which will compound over time, sort of like mortgage interest ... A lot of these points are leftovers from the SH3 days, and some folks ~never~ have a bit of trouble with Saves. Go figure... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

12-12-20, 03:23 PM	#3
Nikdunaev Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 43 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Also, out of curiosity, what about the commonly quoted thing about installing or removing mods at home base? Is that not enough to achieve stability?

12-16-20, 05:39 PM	#6
Nikdunaev Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 43 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Thanks a lot for your help, everyone!

12-16-20, 05:50 PM	#7
Nikdunaev Sailor man Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 43 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	By the way, I would assume, that the game clears the memory it was using, when it stops working, is that actually correct?