NYGM ruined my weekend

[CCIP]

Originally Posted by Yahoshua

So...IS there a fixed amount per destroyer class of how many DCs' they carry? (I'm thinking the Das Boot thing...counting the DC and hoping you don't get hurt.)

It's not counted per destroyer, it's counted per rack/launcher. Each one carries 40, AFAIK.
So, a late-war destroyer escort could have as many as 400 DC's to throw at you (2 racks + 8 K-guns)

[CB..]

here's summat that might be a side issue to the thread in some ways but relevant to gameplay especailly regarding reduced tonnage capability and damage etc

and i've not heard it mentioned before..

A further indication of the great accuracy of depth charge attacks was the frequent damage that the U-Boats now sustained to the upper deck containers for torpedoes, and this affected their diving capacity. In a type IXC boat for example, if four or six of these containers were suddenly flooded, the sinking of the boat could only be prevented by the immediate blowing of the diving tanks. On 30th April (1943) we had to order the removal of the upper deck containers on ALL operational boats. The resulting reduction of torpedoe-carrying capacity was not serious, for the constant air danger had allready discouraged boats from reloading at sea-- a process that required a considerable time on the surface.

this is taken from the Ministry of Defense's originally classified work
"The U-boat War in the Atlantic" by Gunter Hessler (Donitz' son in law)
having been given access to all available classified and unclassified German intelligence reports for the project.

and i thought i was being unrealistic by removing the external torps from the subs ...

on the length of time spent attacking an u-boat during/after a convoy attack it would be usefull to have a convoy commanders point of view?
im pretty sure there's info regarding this in the Gunter Hessler work but boy is it hard to find what you want in this book-- he does mention that most subs expected to be damaged either on the surface by aircraft or escorts or whilst diving to avoid an escort and still shallow-only after the introduction of hedgehogs did commanders become surprised and alarmed by the amount of damage they were recieving at depth--even in 1943-
the type nines being more liable to damage than the sevens-- even to the extent of being withdrawn from full convoy attacks-

it allso mentions the use of a mine by the escorts which the Germans did not have any knowledge of untill after the war-- the Mark XXIV mine..doesn't go into detail on this point sadly except that i think it was called the "mouse-trap"
anyhuw offers possibilities for gameplay modifications

[Observer]

Originally Posted by CCIP

It's not counted per destroyer, it's counted per rack/launcher. Each one carries 40, AFAIK.
So, a late-war destroyer escort could have as many as 400 DC's to throw at you (2 racks + 8 K-guns)

I think I know how to get around this. It's a bit of work, but not impossible. Please post any sources you have on DC load out by escort type.

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Pkunzipper

The first campaing with NYGM 2.0 I attacked a convoy escorted by 1 DD and 3 smaller escorts. After torpedoing 4 ships (2 sunk, 1 dead in the water, 1 damaged), they pinged me and I wasn't able to escape (the sea was only 60 meters depth). For several hoirs they dropped the hell on me, doing moderate damage to my U-boat, nothing too serious, but they managed to destroy forward batteries, leaving my ship with only 25% power left...

Escorts finally left with no more DC, but keep pinging me, forcing me to stay submerged...
24 hours later, trying every kind of maneuver possible, I was forced to surface in the middle of their search pattern with almost no power left...

I manned the deck gun, but after 2 direct hits I preferred to save my men's life and surrendered the boat!

:hmm: ....now what you just related is exactly the situation I was talking about above. I haven't run into it yet..... Probably because I am playing at a maximum TC of 256 and I'm still on Patrol5 in May 40.....but I could see this coming sometime soon after the fall of France.

[Pkunzipper]

Originally Posted by Myxale

Aww, that was tuff! I will never ever run an attack in dept less than 100

Since then I pay much more attention too the depth and I don't start an attack anymore if it is less than 80 meters and there are escorts!

However once I managed to escape in coastal water (30 meters), I know I took a big risk, but the convoy it wasn't moving, so I couldn't leave a so juicy target! But this time I was attacked by only 1 small escort, and I was lucky, since I managed to put immediately the stern of my sub in the direction of the ship search zone, and then slipped away at 1 knots... (It was late 1939, so maybe the escrot crew was very unexperienced)!

[Pkunzipper]

Originally Posted by Seminole

:hmm: ....now what you just related is exactly the situation I was talking about above. I haven't run into it yet..... Probably because I am playing at a maximum TC of 256 and I'm still on Patrol5 in May 40.....but I could see this coming sometime soon after the fall of France.

It was october/november 1939, and the convoy was on the eastern English coast...
As I said it was the first time I met an escorted convoy with NYGM 2.0, so I could have made some mistakes, or maybe just bad luck, since every time I tried to show the stern profile to the main search zone of the escorts there was always a ship that managed to ping me from the side....
And if they didn't hit my forward batteries I would have had more time to try to escape!

[Txema]

...until I managed to slip away by accelerating to Ahead Flank each time one or the other [destroyer] made a DC attack and so lost contact with me.

Is the effect of the DC explosions properly modelled in SH3, making the sonar and hydrophones to loose contact???

Is it usefull to use the tactic quoted avobe when you are being attacked by a group of destroyers? (One making the DC run and the others using their sonar and hydrophones??) Do all the destroyers loose contact when the DCs are exploding in SH3??


Txema

[Der Teddy Bar]

Originally Posted by Txema

Is the effect of the DC explosions properly modelled in SH3, making the sonar and hydrophones to loose contact???

Not to my understanding, if it is, it is very low in effect.

[schuhart]

During these hours taking punishment from the escorts i had a lot of time to count DCs. I noticed that in the beginning there would be DC drops of 8, hours later this would change to 4 and even 2 much later. So i guess someone onboard these escorts were cutting the budget so to speak.

Did i mention that my left eye brow still twitches when i hear a pinging sound?
I experienced real frustration when i after some evasive maneuvers actually thought i had slipped away...long minutes of silence...then...ping...Ping...PIng...PINg...PING. ..

- Schuhart

[Txema]

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Not to my understanding, if it is, it is very low in effect.

Thank you very much for your answer. That is what I was thinking... Unfortunatelly that seems to be a major problem when trying to use real life tactics to escape from a group of destroyers... Well, I guess we have to live with it... A fix for this problem would be sooo interesting to reward the use of real life tactics...


Txema