9/11 The Aftermath

[Platapus]

I wonder how the families of military members who died in AF "fighting the Taliban" now feel about the Taliban becoming part of the government of AF?



I don't think we had an enduring clear objective in AF
I don't think we had developed any methodology to objectively measure progress either for success or failure
I don't think we had an exit criteria based on both Failure and Success.



There are times I felt we stayed in AF because our pride would not let us leave.

[JU_88]

The wests geo political screw ups didnt end with Iraq and Afgahnistan, supporting the Arab Spring & the ousting of gaddafi also had a negative impact.
E.g The European migrant crisis was a consequence of the Syrian war + supporting the revolt against gaddafi. With him gone, the loss of stability in Lybia gave the traffickers free reign. The migrant crises (plus the progressive 'heart before brain' knee jerk reaction to it) in turn fuelled much of than Anti EU sentiment accross the continent and was key in the 'Leave' result of the UKs Referendum and the rise of more rightwing/far right populist movements.

[Catfish]

Indeed it seems what "the west" did (maybe with good intentions) finally destroyed a lot of infrastructure, killed a lot of people, and destabilised countries and whole regions for decades to come.
Ghaddafi made the mistake to try to sell his oil in other than dollar currrency

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Indeed it seems what "the west" did (maybe with good intentions) finally destroyed a lot of infrastructure, killed a lot of people, and destabilised countries and whole regions for decades to come.
Ghaddafi made the mistake to try to sell his oil in other than dollar currrency

Thou Shalt not betray the mighty Petro Dollar.
That ships pretty much sailed now though.

I dont know, on the one hand Its unrealistic to rag too hard on any nation just for looking out for its own interests. They/We all do that and there will always be winners and losers there.
The problem with protectionism really occurs when the benificeries are fewer than the victims. (In many cases 'VASTLY' fewer with a disprortionate severity of victimisation on those negitivly impacted.)

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I wonder how the families of military members who died in AF "fighting the Taliban" now feel about the Taliban becoming part of the government of AF?



I don't think we had an enduring clear objective in AF
I don't think we had developed any methodology to objectively measure progress either for success or failure
I don't think we had an exit criteria based on both Failure and Success.



There are times I felt we stayed in AF because our pride would not let us leave.

Pretty much agree with the above; we probably would have been better off just carrying on a continued action of finding and obliterating Taliban/Al Qaeda, etc., operations from the air rather than mounting an awkward, plodding ground troop assault; it also didn't help that various entities in the US government with their own AF agendas stymied actions that would have quite possibly put and end to a lot of what came after our initial invasion; the allowing of OBL to escape when we had him in our sights leaps to mind since that act of dereliction appears to have been more politically motivated than militarily sound...

...and, on the matter of pride, let's not forget the debacle of the Iraq war that seems to have been predicated on Dubbya wanting to prove he had a bigger pair that his dad...





<O>

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by vienna

Pretty much agree with the above; we probably would have been better off just carrying on a continued action of finding and obliterating Taliban/Al Qaeda, etc., operations from the air rather than mounting an awkward, plodding ground troop assault; it also didn't help that various entities in the US government with their own AF agendas stymied actions that would have quite possibly put and end to a lot of what came after our initial invasion; the allowing of OBL to escape when we had him in our sights leaps to mind since that act of dereliction appears to have been more politically motivated than militarily sound...

...and, on the matter of pride, let's not forget the debacle of the Iraq war that seems to have been predicated on Dubbya wanting to prove he had a bigger pair that his dad...



<O>

I think thats what the U.S would have done under most circumstances /leadership.
Not sure I buy the idea of 'Dubbya' wanting to prove himself to Dad. Looking into his past reveals that it would have been a first for him really. I think it was more about returning favours to his former Haliburton mates and ilk who helped him in office in the first place, its seem to me that Cheney, select advisors & co were the real brains behind the Bush Jr admin.
back then War meant big business to alot of very infulential U.S Companies and Institutions.
But now everyones too broke to be doing that.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by JU_88

I think thats what the U.S would have done under most circumstances /leadership.
Not sure I buy the idea of 'Dubbya' wanting to prove himself to Dad. Looking into his past reveals that it would have been a first for him really. I think it was more about returning favours to his former Haliburton mates and ilk who helped him in office in the first place, its seem to me that Cheney, select advisors & co were the real brains behind the Bush Jr admin.
back then War meant big business to alot of very infulential U.S Companies and Institutions.
But now everyones too broke to be doing that.

I'll give you that Cheney was the Richelieu to Bush's Dauphin, but if you read accounts by those who actually were part of the Bush administration's conduct following 9/11 and the ramp up to the war, it is more than obvious Dubbya was an eager and willing participant; his adamant instance the intelligence and military must find a connection, however spurious, between the 9/11 attacks and Iraq speaks to an agenda beyond just being beholden to Cheney...




<O>

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I wonder how the families of military members who died in AF "fighting the Taliban" now feel about the Taliban becoming part of the government of AF?



I don't think we had an enduring clear objective in AF
I don't think we had developed any methodology to objectively measure progress either for success or failure
I don't think we had an exit criteria based on both Failure and Success.



There are times I felt we stayed in AF because our pride would not let us leave.

PERFECT POST. Post of the year?