The future of europe?/Islam threads (Merged)

Yahoshua · 06-18-06, 12:50 AM

3 entries found for terrorism.

ter·ror·ism

( P ) Pronunciation Key (t

r

-r

z

m)
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
1 : the unlawful use or threat of violence esp. against the state or the public as a politically motivated means of attack or coercion
2 : violent and intimidating gang activity <street terrorism> —ter·ror·ist /-ist/ adj or noun —ter·ror·is·tic /"ter-&r-'is-tik/ adjective

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
terrorism
n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear [syn: act of terrorism, terrorist act]

Courtesy of Dictionary.com.

The definition you posted, does indeed fit the Stern Gang and the Irgun. But I don't recall any of the Irgun members kidnapping British civilians and beheading them. But MY definition of terrorism is the last one one this list:...."the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians...." In regards to the Stern Gang, I have deep reservations about them for even having considered diplomatic relations with the Nazis. Although I'm thankful that they brought the infamous Lord Folke to justice for his crimes.

However, when using your definition, nobody here would sing the tune of the Star Spangled Banner knowing that Washington and his cohorts were actually terrorists bent on the destruction of the English Commonwealth. I'd also like to point out that a number of out government institutions are diseased with at least two things: Legislationitis and Bureaucracy. (I finally spelled it right for once).

"easy, tiger. where's the accusation? where did you get that?"

I don't support terrorism, and you called them terrorists. You even said so yourself: ".....which fits both the irgun and the stern gang."

A Website about the Stern Gang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Gang
And a website about Irgun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
Here is a website detailing the operation: http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm

It states that the bomb exploded 25 minutes after the call. If you could find a link to an article regarding the British view I'd be happy to read it.

"ah, the lowest form of wit and the highest of humour."

I know I might be a bit slow but mommy says I'm special.

"but don't forget there were arabs and muslims in commonwealth forces in europe and the china-burma-india theaters."

And I haven't forgotten them. And I'm thankful they were on our side....at least with the Allied powers that is.

"there's been plenty of arab civilians killed as collateral damage by israeli forces in palestine and lebanon."

Yes, this is true, and it saddens me that such loss of life must be suffered at all. But if the terorists were to simply STOP. Then it wouldn't happen. And if one side continues to attack, and the other retaliates, then who is at fault? The one who attacks, or the other who retaliates?

"i'd absolutely agree that some of the prisoners constitute a threat to the us."

Good, we agree on something.

"but all? and why haven't they been charged? with anything?"

Now this is where our wonderful American beauracracy f*cks up absolutely EVERYTHING. How it should go is: Arrest, Charges, Trial, and sentencing. How it goes right now is: Arrest, Jail, maybe some charges, but no hope of trial or sentencing. This is where filtering should occur. Terrorists are kept, and innocents are not.

I like the first method better, and I should point out that here in America, Uncle Sam is NOT your friend (or mine for that matter).

"really? so were you calling for the mass deportation of anyone of irish descent from mainland great britain when the ira was busy with their bombing campaigns?"

I wasn't around for that and don't actually know all that much regarding the history of the Irish Republican War other than it was motivated mainly by religious reasons. (If you're still intent on pursuing this angle of the debate, then I'll read up on it and give you an answer).

"if you truly, in your heart of hearts, believe that it's right and justified to kill innocent palestinian civilians, then i guess we don't have a lot more to talk about."

If that's what I thought then this thread would've been shut down and I'd be reported to the police for incitement of racist speech and hate crimes. But you also have to ask yourself if these needless casualties could've been avoided if the terrorists hadn't been hiding in POPULATED AREAS.

I should also point out to you that Israel had not brought in the artillery several years ago when the bombings were far worse. But now that they're there, I'm guessing that the IDF cares less and less about collateral damage. I wonder why that could be......

"can you understand that there's a harsh anti-israeli feeling in palestine? can you understand why? can you empathize?"

Can I truly empathize for them? Possibly, if they weren't busy electing Hamas into office, and cheering on Arafat when he was at the podium declaring that he'd "Drive the Jews into the sea." And if it were solely the case of purposely forcing these people into camps and the IDF massacreing them at will when these refugees did no wrong to other groups nor made any agressive moves against their neighbor, I might've been able to empathise with them.

But as far as the process I've seen, it sort of goes something like this: Terrorist wants infidel Jews gone, Terrorist blows up bus, Infidel Jews retaliate, Some terrorists die and collateral damage results. Victims of collateral damage wail about their suffering on TV and get publicity, Infidel Jews are blamed as the agressors and punished for their action, Everyone forgets/ignores who started the fight and that there are victims of the bus bombing too, Biased Liberal media doesn't care and ignores that aspect (so much for fair and balanced). Infidel Jews offer land-for-peace deal that is rejected and another bombing occurs, with complimentary retalitaion. The mess is cleaned up and then the cycle is repeated.

I must admit, there are even times when I find myself calling for a carpet bombing to simply end the matter. But I know that it's wrong morally and ethically to do so.

"but i'm an arab, and i'm a muslim, so i must be anti-semitic?"

Do you believe the passages in the Q'uran stating that infidels who refuse to submit to Islam be exterminated? If you say no, then I don't really consider you a Moslem. I can't tell you what you are, but you're not a Moslem if that's what you deny. And if you do believe that all infidels should be exterminated and believe everything else about Islam, then you fit the criteria of being a Moslem.

I simply am unable to picture a true moslem tearing out half the Q'uran in order to "Modernize." Especially since all the words in those books were written by Mohammed and passed down from him. And a good deal of the Q'uran is dedicated towards the extermination of Jews and Christians.

How are you able to explain all of that away and still be a Moslem?

"....i'd like to think so."

As do I. I just want to be able to leave my pistol locked in my safe instead of having it loaded next to my bed for once. But until things change (however that change may occur), I'm keeping my sidearm within a moments reach at all times.

Iceman · 06-19-06, 02:30 AM

Russian Song

The Avon Lady · 06-19-06, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Russian Song

Lyrics:

In europe and america, theres a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the soviets
Mr. krushchev said we will bury you
I dont subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the russians love their children too

How can I save my little boy from oppenheimers deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the president
Theres no such thing as a winnable war
Its a lie that we dont believe anymore
Mr. reagan says we will protect you
I dont subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too

We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
What might save us, me, and you
Is that the russians love their children too

Are these the Russians?

Do we have the same biology?

No such thing as a winnable war (1)?

No such thing as a winnable war (2)?

Common sense?

Silly nilly song?

Yahoshua · 06-19-06, 04:50 PM

Great post Avon Lady.....I really get alot of info off your posts here. Thanks.

Iceman · 06-19-06, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Russian Song

Lyrics:

In europe and america, theres a growing feeling of hysteria
Conditioned to respond to all the threats
In the rhetorical speeches of the soviets
Mr. krushchev said we will bury you
I dont subscribe to this point of view
It would be such an ignorant thing to do
If the russians love their children too

How can I save my little boy from oppenheimers deadly toy
There is no monopoly in common sense
On either side of the political fence
We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too

There is no historical precedent
To put the words in the mouth of the president
Theres no such thing as a winnable war
Its a lie that we dont believe anymore
Mr. reagan says we will protect you
I dont subscribe to this point of view
Believe me when I say to you
I hope the russians love their children too

We share the same biology
Regardless of ideology
What might save us, me, and you
Is that the russians love their children too

Are these the Russians?

Do we have the same biology?

No such thing as a winnable war (1)?

No such thing as a winnable war (2)?

Common sense?

Silly nilly song?

Holy Cow Batman...Only you would think it a silly nilly song? with a question mark????

Do ya really think peace is a silly willie notion?

People are people....you don't have to be a Jew or Muslim to think governments and religions are Screwed Up do ya really Avon Lady?

Do you even have to think about it? Good grief Charlie Brown it is a song for crying out loud.You seem to have a heart like stone it appears Avon Lady.Not everything is a plot....Smell some roses sometime.

The Avon Lady · 06-20-06, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Holy Cow Batman...Only you would think it a silly nilly song? with a question mark????

Do ya really think peace is a silly willie notion?

No, and I didn't say so. Peace is the ultimate utopia, if you can achieve it. I said the song is silly - specifically many of the lyrics. Follow my links to see why.

Sometimes wars are forced upon us. Hitler did it. Now Islam is. Unless, of course, you consider the possibility of the west capitulating and living as dhimmis under Islamic sha'aria law as the epitomy of peace. Islam views it as such. Perhaps you agree?

It would be lovely if there was no evil in the world but, as you and I know, that's only going to show up later on in this world.

"Sin will be vanquished from the earth and the wicked will be no more; my soul, bless the Lord. Hallelujah." - Psalm 104:35

Quote:

People are people....you don't have to be a Jew or Muslim to think governments and religions are Screwed Up do ya really Avon Lady?

I never said otherwise.

Quote:

Do you even have to think about it? Good grief Charlie Brown

Leave Chuck outta this!

Quote:

it is a song for crying out loud.

It's a song that expresses nonsense from a historical and philosophical perspective. "Silly Nilly" is a fitting description indeed.

But if you think sitting in a circle singing Kumbaya-Kumbaya is going to bring peace and harmony to mankind, then by all means do so.

Quote:

You seem to have a heart like stone it appears Avon Lady.

I am a realist. I do not care for pessimism and I hedge myself against fantasy based optimism.

You don't know me. Nor my family. You haven't an inkling of the charity work and community activities that I'm involved with. You have no concept, so it would seem, of the adoration and appreciation I personally have for my country of birth, the United States, for my grave concern for its citizens, for my pain in what I witnessed on 9/11 and for my fear of what's coming up in this world that may potentially affect most everyone around the globe.

I don't have a heart of stone any more than you have eyes of lead for not being able to see me for what I am. Like I said, you don't know me.

The Avon Lady · 06-20-06, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Are these the Russians?

Maybe this should be spun off as a separate subject.

Taleban use children as shields to fight British.

Russians? NYET!

The Avon Lady · 06-26-06, 02:09 PM

Another small step for Eurabia: A Muslim Constitution in Europe.

Skybird · 06-26-06, 03:20 PM

The political left will love it. Isn't our tolerance incredibly superior? We allow them to claim their legislation ranking above that of our constitutional orders and laws.As always, always, always, the majority of oh so peaceful, oh so moderate, oh so anti-Islamist Muslims allow these "extremists" to speak for them, without challenging them, questioning them, calling them back. As always.AL probably already knows this, but for others:http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/2...1968print.html

scandium · 06-26-06, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Another small step for Eurabia: A Muslim Constitution in Europe.

All part of the world Muslim conspiracy to take over the planet - first Eurpe, then the world!

Skybird · 06-26-06, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Another small step for Eurabia: A Muslim Constitution in Europe.

All part of the world Muslim conspiracy to take over the planet - first Eurpe, then the world!

As a matter of fact, ruling of all world and every single man is written, postulated, practiced, historically proven nature and essence of Islamic ideology. But even if you read it black on white in their scriptures, and their scholars confirm it to you when you ask them, and their speakers (to which the overwhelming majoirty of Muslims do not reject or oppose and remain sielnt instead) demand this policy to be followed in international Muslim conferences or "intercultural meetings", and when seeing the parallels between Islam's theological demand, and it's history of the last 1400 years, you still would not believe it, for it violates the conclusions of your Western civilized way of reasonable thinking, and you probaly happen to know a friendly Muslim colleague that is not like this and who tells you that Islam simply is misunderstood, and actually teaches someting very different. So the "

" goes to you in fact:

"I am not like that, so others cannot be like that, too. They are all like me."

The Avon Lady · 06-27-06, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scandium

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Another small step for Eurabia: A Muslim Constitution in Europe.

All part of the world Muslim conspiracy to take over the planet - first Eurpe, then the world!

It's not a conspiracy. It's elementary Islamic doctrine.

You know what? All you've ever been able to do here is snicker, without an ounce of proof - theological, historical or otherwise - to your claim that Islam is not interested in making the world Islamic.

Why don't you try quoting the Islamic verses and legal texts you base your opinion on. Why don't you give us a serious go at logically and rationally showing how we're wrong.

I dare you.

Waiting...................................

06-18-06, 12:50 AM	#1
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	*3 entries found for terrorism.* ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm) n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. [Download Now or Buy the Book] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Main Entry: ter·ror·ism Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m Function: noun 1 : the unlawful use or threat of violence esp. against the state or the public as a politically motivated means of attack or coercion 2 : violent and intimidating gang activity <street terrorism> —ter·ror·ist /-ist/ adj or noun —ter·ror·is·tic /"ter-&r-'is-tik/ adjective Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc. terrorism n : the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear [syn: act of terrorism, terrorist act] Courtesy of Dictionary.com. The definition you posted, does indeed fit the Stern Gang and the Irgun. But I don't recall any of the Irgun members kidnapping British civilians and beheading them. But MY definition of terrorism is the last one one this list:...."the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians...." In regards to the Stern Gang, I have deep reservations about them for even having considered diplomatic relations with the Nazis. Although I'm thankful that they brought the infamous Lord Folke to justice for his crimes. However, when using your definition, nobody here would sing the tune of the Star Spangled Banner knowing that Washington and his cohorts were actually terrorists bent on the destruction of the English Commonwealth. I'd also like to point out that a number of out government institutions are diseased with at least two things: Legislationitis and Bureaucracy. (I finally spelled it right for once). "easy, tiger. where's the accusation? where did you get that?" I don't support terrorism, and you called them terrorists. You even said so yourself: ".....which fits both the irgun and the stern gang." A Website about the Stern Gang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Gang And a website about Irgun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun Here is a website detailing the operation: http://www.etzel.org.il/english/ac10.htm It states that the bomb exploded 25 minutes after the call. If you could find a link to an article regarding the British view I'd be happy to read it. "ah, the lowest form of wit and the highest of humour." I know I might be a bit slow but mommy says I'm special. "but don't forget there were arabs and muslims in commonwealth forces in europe and the china-burma-india theaters." And I haven't forgotten them. And I'm thankful they were on our side....at least with the Allied powers that is. "there's been plenty of arab civilians killed as collateral damage by israeli forces in palestine and lebanon." Yes, this is true, and it saddens me that such loss of life must be suffered at all. But if the terorists were to simply STOP. Then it wouldn't happen. And if one side continues to attack, and the other retaliates, then who is at fault? The one who attacks, or the other who retaliates? "i'd absolutely agree that some of the prisoners constitute a threat to the us." Good, we agree on something. "but all? and why haven't they been charged? with anything?" Now this is where our wonderful American beauracracy fcks up absolutely EVERYTHING. How it should go is: Arrest, Charges, Trial, and sentencing. How it goes right now is: Arrest, Jail, maybe some charges, but no hope of trial or sentencing. This is where filtering should occur. Terrorists are kept, and innocents are not. I like the first method better, and I should point out that here in America, Uncle Sam is NOT your friend (or mine for that matter). "really? so were you calling for the mass deportation of anyone of irish descent from mainland great britain when the ira was busy with their bombing campaigns?"* I wasn't around for that and don't actually know all that much regarding the history of the Irish Republican War other than it was motivated mainly by religious reasons. (If you're still intent on pursuing this angle of the debate, then I'll read up on it and give you an answer). "if you truly, in your heart of hearts, believe that it's right and justified to kill innocent palestinian civilians, then i guess we don't have a lot more to talk about." If that's what I thought then this thread would've been shut down and I'd be reported to the police for incitement of racist speech and hate crimes. But you also have to ask yourself if these needless casualties could've been avoided if the terrorists hadn't been hiding in POPULATED AREAS. I should also point out to you that Israel had not brought in the artillery several years ago when the bombings were far worse. But now that they're there, I'm guessing that the IDF cares less and less about collateral damage. I wonder why that could be...... "can you understand that there's a harsh anti-israeli feeling in palestine? can you understand why? can you empathize?" Can I truly empathize for them? Possibly, if they weren't busy electing Hamas into office, and cheering on Arafat when he was at the podium declaring that he'd "Drive the Jews into the sea." And if it were solely the case of purposely forcing these people into camps and the IDF massacreing them at will when these refugees did no wrong to other groups nor made any agressive moves against their neighbor, I might've been able to empathise with them. But as far as the process I've seen, it sort of goes something like this: Terrorist wants infidel Jews gone, Terrorist blows up bus, Infidel Jews retaliate, Some terrorists die and collateral damage results. Victims of collateral damage wail about their suffering on TV and get publicity, Infidel Jews are blamed as the agressors and punished for their action, Everyone forgets/ignores who started the fight and that there are victims of the bus bombing too, Biased Liberal media doesn't care and ignores that aspect (so much for fair and balanced). Infidel Jews offer land-for-peace deal that is rejected and another bombing occurs, with complimentary retalitaion. The mess is cleaned up and then the cycle is repeated. I must admit, there are even times when I find myself calling for a carpet bombing to simply end the matter. But I know that it's wrong morally and ethically to do so. "but i'm an arab, and i'm a muslim, so i must be anti-semitic?" Do you believe the passages in the Q'uran stating that infidels who refuse to submit to Islam be exterminated? If you say no, then I don't really consider you a Moslem. I can't tell you what you are, but you're not a Moslem if that's what you deny. And if you do believe that all infidels should be exterminated and believe everything else about Islam, then you fit the criteria of being a Moslem. I simply am unable to picture a true moslem tearing out half the Q'uran in order to "Modernize." Especially since all the words in those books were written by Mohammed and passed down from him. And a good deal of the Q'uran is dedicated towards the extermination of Jews and Christians. How are you able to explain all of that away and still be a Moslem? "....i'd like to think so." As do I. I just want to be able to leave my pistol locked in my safe instead of having it loaded next to my bed for once. But until things change (however that change may occur), I'm keeping my sidearm within a moments reach at all times. Last edited by Yahoshua; 06-18-06 at 01:00 AM.

06-26-06, 02:09 PM	#8
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Another small step for Eurabia: A Muslim Constitution in Europe. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

06-26-06, 03:20 PM	#9
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,668 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The political left will love it. Isn't our tolerance incredibly superior? We allow them to claim their legislation ranking above that of our constitutional orders and laws.As always, always, always, the majority of oh so peaceful, oh so moderate, oh so anti-Islamist Muslims allow these "extremists" to speak for them, without challenging them, questioning them, calling them back. As always.AL probably already knows this, but for others:http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/2...1968print.html __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

06-19-06, 02:30 AM	#2
Iceman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mesa AZ, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,253 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Russian Song

06-19-06, 04:50 PM	#4
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Great post Avon Lady.....I really get alot of info off your posts here. Thanks.