Escort depth charge expenditure permanent or not?

[Grumpy Pete]

It's a good question. Without proof, I would believe that every time a convoy/escort spawns it does so with a full load of depth charges. I've never tested that out however.


In RL destroyers typically carried 36-50 dc's depending on class. Destroyer Escorts and Sloops could carry 120 while the typical number for a Flower Class was 75. I've never read anywhere that they could be resupplied ammo at sea. Refueling in the Atlantic is tough enough and they did do that.


Would I like to see escorts limited to historical dc load outs in SH3? Not really. The Escort AI has some serious limitations in the brains department as to figure out when to stop dropping ash cans on mackerel. Many aspects od ASW work are not modeled in the game. I wish they were but have to admit, it would have taken a LOT of coding. Escorts are somewhat nerfed by being generic in behavior so I'm fine with giving them more dc's to keep me honest.


I've modded the Active sonar system in the game to historical ranges in the past and unless you like pain, don't do it. You'll be held down for hours even in the early war because convoy effects/turbulence from explosions/ dynamic ocean environments etc are not modeled either. Weather certainly does factor in though and that's really important. For the record, early active sonar systems had a range of up to 3000 yards. In game I believe they are something like 1200-1400. They do get somewhat better as new systems come online as the war progresses though.


IMO--The current GWX system works pretty good to my liking. Nothing against other mega mods. I haven't tried them but may at some point. But it's late and I'm rambling...

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete

It's a good question. Without proof, I would believe that every time a convoy/escort spawns it does so with a full load of depth charges. I've never tested that out however.


In RL destroyers typically carried 36-50 dc's depending on class. Destroyer Escorts and Sloops could carry 120 while the typical number for a Flower Class was 75. I've never read anywhere that they could be resupplied ammo at sea. Refueling in the Atlantic is tough enough and they did do that.


Would I like to see escorts limited to historical dc load outs in SH3? Not really. The Escort AI has some serious limitations in the brains department as to figure out when to stop dropping ash cans on mackerel. Many aspects od ASW work are not modeled in the game. I wish they were but have to admit, it would have taken a LOT of coding. Escorts are somewhat nerfed by being generic in behavior so I'm fine with giving them more dc's to keep me honest.


I've modded the Active sonar system in the game to historical ranges in the past and unless you like pain, don't do it. You'll be held down for hours even in the early war because convoy effects/turbulence from explosions/ dynamic ocean environments etc are not modeled either. Weather certainly does factor in though and that's really important. For the record, early active sonar systems had a range of up to 3000 yards. In game I believe they are something like 1200-1400. They do get somewhat better as new systems come online as the war progresses though.


IMO--The current GWX system works pretty good to my liking. Nothing against other mega mods. I haven't tried them but may at some point. But it's late and I'm rambling...

I agree; the escort AI isn't very good anyway. For that matter, that's the main reason I've never even noticed if they run out of charges; none of their attacks have lasted long enough for that to happen.

[Grumpy Pete]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I agree; the escort AI isn't very good anyway. For that matter, that's the main reason I've never even noticed if they run out of charges; none of their attacks have lasted long enough for that to happen.

Yes. As far as I'm concerned it's the most glaring "issue" with SH3 because it can't be modded. I don't know who all would remember Aces of the Deep (very old subsim) but even back then escorts were smarter. If they lost contact they would do box searches and if there were enough escorts, they would even do line-abreast sweeps. If memory serves, they also did creeping attacks. I think adding behaviors like that into SH3 would require working the source code and way much more ability than I have.


Also John--I like your Clay Blair quote (from Hitler's U-Boat War?). Blair also explains why Admiral King shouldn't really be viewed so harshly for what happened during Operation Drumbeat. Those volumes are a Great read!

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Pete

Yes. As far as I'm concerned it's the most glaring "issue" with SH3 because it can't be modded. I don't know who all would remember Aces of the Deep (very old subsim) but even back then escorts were smarter. If they lost contact they would do box searches and if there were enough escorts, they would even do line-abreast sweeps. If memory serves, they also did creeping attacks. I think adding behaviors like that into SH3 would require working the source code and way much more ability than I have.


Also John--I like your Clay Blair quote (from Hitler's U-Boat War?). Blair also explains why Admiral King shouldn't really be viewed so harshly for what happened during Operation Drumbeat. Those volumes are a Great read!

Yes, there's no comparison between escorts in AOD vs any version of SH3. One of the main reasons I still play AOD.
Also yes, from his u-boat war series. Outstanding books in many ways.