Video emerges of Minneapolis police killing a citizen - - Riots

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^Same here. 99-99.99 % is doing a fantastic job and I salute every police in the world.

Markus

I agree. However, when good cops cover for bad cops, they are no longer good cops

[Col7777]

I just watched the video, I've not seen the others that onlookers took.

I read the guy tried to pass a counterfeit $20 bill, if he knew it or not it's not like he was brandishing a gun or threatening anyone, in other word not a violent crime.
4 cops, one had him pinned down and handcuffed, I read there was one cop holding his legs yet I couldn't see that on this video, so if that is true he was well held down and not struggling.

I couldn't understand why they were holding him down for so long instead of putting him in the police car.


I once saw a police video where they stopped a guy and were holding him up at gun point, the guy had his arms raised.
One cop was yelling at him to lie down, as he went to move the other cop was also yelling at him not to move, in a way it was funny, neither of the cops were listening to what the other was yelling and the guy was nearly shot because of it.

Col.

[Jimbuna]

A police officer fired following the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in Minneapolis has been arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter.

Derek Chauvin is one of four police officers who were fired after Mr Floyd's death in custody on Monday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52854025

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I agree. However, when good cops cover for bad cops, they are no longer good cops

I remember reading this once: Little is required for evil to prevail other than the good to stand by and do nothing. That's pretty much what you already said.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

A police officer fired following the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in Minneapolis has been arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter.

Derek Chauvin is one of four police officers who were fired after Mr Floyd's death in custody on Monday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52854025

Like most, I was expecting charges to be filed at the conclusion of this week. However, I was expecting formal charges against the 4 officers in the video for the role they played in the death of George Floyd. Chauvin was charged with 3rd degree murder and Manslaughter.

Another video has emerged, part of what Vienna posted the video too. It seems to show Derek Chauvin, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao and J. Alexander Kuengdown were holding Floyd down while George Floyd was already down, restrained and hardly a danger to anyone.

If there is any justice, charges will be leveled at the other 3 officers for their involvement in this murder.

[Platapus]

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke (attrib)

[Onkel Neal]

Protesters and anarchists in Atlanta swarm CNN (CNN?).

First video shows people massing




Second video shows they overwhelmed the police and rioted.


I suspect plenty of people enjoy rioting. Now the taxpayers have to pay for new police cars.

[August]

Exacerbated by being cooped up for two months no doubt.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I suspect plenty of people enjoy rioting. Now the taxpayers have to pay for new police cars.

Just like Europe has people who like to travel to football games just to fight, I am sure we have people here in the US who like to travel to protests to fight/loot


I just don't understand that mindset.

[Skybird]

There are immense differences in training quality between US and European polices. The focus also is different, and most likely far more complex and complete in Europe.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-tr...95546384791691

That article describes an incident from 2015, mentioning that the involved officers got training for just 9 or 11 weeks!

In Germany, it depends whether you become a police officer bei "Ausbildung" or "Studium". It lasts 2.5 and 3 years.

One can expect that in Europe the focus is far more inclusive of soft skills and psychological conflict (and stress) management.

Jim can tell how training is in the UK, I found no real helpful numbers on total training times. Just several courses listed that lasted from several weeks to up to one year, with most or all of them needing to be taken and passed.

It also gets said over here time and again that by comparison a tremendously higher ammount of ex-soldiers join the police in the US. I strongly suspect the military, combat-focussed attitude taught in the military, gets carried over then, including that strongly competitive team spriit of "us against them". Just that warriors should be left in the army, not being put into the civil police force that makes the cops you see on the streets. SWAT and special teams , counter terror and such, okay. But the ordinary police cop? "Soft" may have a foul taste for some, but "soft skills", communication, stress management, psychological handling of people and situation, is important for police work. After all, the streets are not Normandy beach.

That those 57 others quit the emergency support team in solidarity with those two colleagues, by all what is known I conclude shows a troubling mindset and a wrong attitude. They should be removed from police service if supporting the two is their consequence of this action. By all what is known so far.

Warriors into the army, but not into the police. Solidarity and loyalty can be misled. And as my grandfather used to say: there can be no such thing as a "corrupt cop". There only are cops, and corrupt people. Corrupt people are no cops, even if they wear a uniform or have a badge.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Originally Posted by Catfish

Wtf and why did they do that? There is blood coming out of his ear, he surely has suffered a basal skull fracture. I hope he survives.

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

This is disgraceful. This older gentleman was hardly a threat to these officers. The 2 police officers identified in the video have been suspended. 57 members of the emergency response team resigned in support of these 2 officers. This video took place in Buffalo, New York.


The elderly man in the video is in the hospital in serious condition but he is alive. Hopefully with good hospital care, he will be alright.

Yep, the public deserve better but there is more to this story apparently.

According to the Buffalo News, the members have stepped down from the Emergency Response Team, but not the police department itself.

John Evans, president of the local police union, told the newspaper: "Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square.

"It doesn't specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don't know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards."

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Friday the two officers should be fired, and called for the incident to be investigated for "possible criminal charges". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52945190

[Catfish]

Thanks Commander Wallace, as said i hope he makes it.

" I don't know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards."

Good that there is the video

Reminds me of the justice-in-America joke where they find that black man, multiple shot wounds, some knife stabs, a hangman's knot around the neck, handcuffed, with a concrete block around his feet, found dead down in a well in Alabama. And the sheriff saying "Never saw such an obvious case of suicide."

[Jimbuna]

Yes, there will be those in establishment who will try to cover their own backs and aid in poring water on the fire but I'm betting they are in the minority.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Thanks Commander Wallace, as said i hope he makes it.

Good that there is the video

"

You are more than welcome, Kai. I know you, Jim and many others, were concerned of this older gentleman's health. We will of course let all of you know if we hear more on the story. Please do the same.

@ Skybird: Excellent dissertation on the merits of using former military members as police officers and why that is not a good idea. @ U-Crank ( Marcel ) also hit the nail on the head so to speak with regards to the power and influence of the police unions and the role they play in the protection of rogue officers.

Although it's a truly ugly story we are seeing unfold, It's great to see the intelligent and informed comments and opinions that are being expressed here by our Subsim members, worldwide. Awesome work, everyone.

[vienna]

This TV news report has a snippet from a surveillance/security camera across the street from the scene where George Floyd died; at about :28 into the report, Floyd is shown being walked by two police officers across the street to a police vehicle as they get to the car, it appears Floyd trips or slips on the edge of the sidewalk next to the vehicle; up to that point, Floyd is not seen giving any resistance to the officers as they usher him to the vehicle:





Note that Floyd falls on the sidewalk side of the vehicle, but the death scene is on the opposite side of the vehicle; it would be interesting to see what happened during the move to the other side of the cruiser. Regardless of what transpired during those moments moving from one side of the vehicle to the other, there is no excuse for the actions of four officers leading a single non-resistant person to a car to use force way out of scale to not only the nature of the alleged crime Floyd was being accused of but, also, towards a compliant suspect. The knee to the neck is reminiscent of the choke/sleeper holds police officers used to use until they were banned in almost all police jurisdictions; the knee to the neck has the same potentially lethal effects of the banned holds: constriction of breathing airways, blockage of major arteries in the neck, the preventing of blood flow to the brain. There are other newly posted videos on YT of the incident, including some police body cam footage, and all, so far, shows a rather routine, non-threatening sort of encounter; officers seem to be almost casual about the whole encounter up until Floyd falls off the curb of the sidewalk. There were two other persons in Floyd's car at the time of his arrest and even they are not resisting and are shown as being rather casual about the situation...

I support the police departments, but I am not blind to the fact there are those who wear the badge who shouldn't. Even among the ranks of the officers, there is a disdain for the rouge or corrupt officers who make it all the more difficult for the vast majority of good officers to do their jobs and gain the trust of those they serve. There is a unit in the LAPD called the Metro Squad that had a very less then stellar reputation; they moved from area to area of the city and were tasked with 'cleaning up' crime rises as they occurred; their tactics, ethics, and morals were the subject of much criticism both inside and outside the force; for decades patrol officers dreaded the appearance of Metro in their areas because Metro would swoop in, indulge in their heavy handed brand of "justice" and leave, leaving the patrol officers to have to deal with the negative fallout from Metros actions. Metro, now, is a whole different team; the ineffectual Police Chief at the time of the 1992 riots was given the boot and subsequent chiefs, notably Bill Bratton, who did a through cleansing and reorganization/modernization of the LAPD, have made the force more acceptable to LA citizens; the level of respect shown to the LAPD officers now is remarkable in contrast with the former levels of distrust and fear...

The time is long overdue for police agencies to face the reality that coddling bad officers is a disservice to the fine work done by the larger majority of good officers; the same goes for the police unions: the automatic, knee-jerk, all-in backing a blatantly bad officers serves no purpose other than the harm of the good officers they are supposed to represent...




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[Platapus]