Video emerges of Minneapolis police killing a citizen - - Riots

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by mapuc

An outsider should not point fingers at another countries law and enforcement.

When it comes to give ideas then I think it may be ok.

The idea I give is from Sweden.

1. Since many, many years back and since some incident an upcoming police cadet have to go through a psychological test of some sort.
(from the Swedish news around 10 years after this had been implement, showed that 2-3 out of 20 interested have been classified as not suitable for the job)

2. Today a Swedish police has a number on his shirt/jacket.
In case a police should be to harsh and a civilian want to complain.
S/He can then use this number and the Internal affairs know who's the police office behind the mask.(The civilians don't)

Markus

I'm not so sure on this Markus. Your being from a country other than the U.S may give you a unique perspective and allow you to do a comparison and contrast with law enforcement in your own country.

Derek Chauvin, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao and J. Alexander Kueng were fired while Chauvin was the one identified who for lack of a better word, executed an unarmed and restrained, George Floyd.

Chauvin has an extensive record of complaints against him in his role of a police officer. Chauvin was never disciplined which is indicative of the culture of the police department in Minneapolis. The Internal Affairs apparently never acted on the complaints inside it's own department or considered the complaints to have any merit.

It's been said that George Floyd may have tried to pass a counterfeit $ 20 dollar bill. This may be true but did Floyd print it ? Did Floyd unknowingly pass on a bill that he himself got and didn't know was counterfeit or is that a cover story that the Minneapolis Police used to cover their bases. If there was probable cause, then the proper remedial action would be to arrest and charge Floyd and allow Floyd his day in court to stand trial. The officers acted as judge, jury and executioner.

The official report is that Floyd died of a " medical condition ". I never heard of a videotaped execution called a " medical condition." I would say be being force-ably asphyxiated as shown in the video constitutes first degree murder and charges are warranted.

The lack of compassion shown by Chauvin and the time it took for him to die shows premeditation. This makes the job by decent law enforcement officers more difficult as there is a loss of trust. Further, This horrible incident subjects honest and decent Law enforcement officers to retaliation.

I just wonder how we manufacture people who have so little regard for life as to get a thrill from killing another person.




^ You hit the nail on the head, Platapus.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

I'm not so sure on this Markus. Your being from a country other than the U.S may give you a unique perspective and allow you to do a comparison and contrast with law enforcement in your own country.

Derek Chauvin, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao and J. Alexander Kueng were fired while Chauvin was the one identified who for lack of a better word, executed an unarmed and restrained, George Floyd.

Chauvin has an extensive record of complaints against him in his role of a police officer. Chauvin was never disciplined which is indicative of the culture of the police department in Minneapolis. The Internal Affairs apparently never acted on the complaints inside it's own department or considered the complaints without merit.


It's been said that George Floyd may have tried to pass a counterfeit $ 20 dollar bill. This may be true but did Floyd print it ? Did Floyd unknowingly pass on a bill that he himself got and didn't know was counterfeit or is that a cover story that the Minneapolis Police used to cover their bases. If Floyd was guilty, then the proper remedial action would be to arrest and charge Floyd and allow Floyd his day in court to stand trial. The officers acted as judge, jury and executioner.

The official report is that Floyd died of a " medical condition ". I never heard of a videotaped execution called a " medical condition." I would say be being force-ably asphyxiated as shown in the video constitutes first degree murder and charges are warranted.

The lack of compassion shown by Chauvin and the time it took for him to die shows premeditation. This makes the job by decent law enforcement officers more difficult as there is a loss of trust. Further, This horrible incident subjects honest and decent Law enforcement officers to retaliation.

I just wonder how we manufacture people who have so little regard for life as to get a thrill from killing another person.




^ You hit the nail on the head, Platapus.

A thought based on your reply.

If an American who wants to be a police officer had to go through some kind of psychological test. Would a person like Derek Chauvin passed this test ?

Because if you could remove those people before they take seat in the Police academy, it would be good thing.

As said in this Swedish news program some years ago.

From memory
Many want to be a police officer, but not everyone have the psychology to be a police officer.



Markus

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by mapuc

A thought based on your reply.

If an American who wants to be a police officer had to go through some kind of psychological test. Would a person like Derek Chauvin passed this test ?

Because if you could remove those people before they take seat in the Police academy, it would be good thing.

As said in this Swedish news program some years ago.

From memory
Many want to be a police officer, but not everyone have the psychology to be a police officer.

Markus

I'm really not sure Markus. From what I have heard, the lack of candidates has forced some police agencies I know of to lower the standards considerably to police cadets / recruits.

I remember going to college and one of my classmates aspired to be a police officer. As I understand it, he made it and quite frankly, he was dumber than a box of rocks and that's being kind.

There are good police officers, Markus and my comments are not an indictment of police officers, just the horribly bad ones. To Illustrate this point, I saw this video a few years ago and never forgot it. This is being a good law enforcement officer at it's best.

[mapuc]

^Same here. 99-99.99 % is doing a fantastic job and I salute every police in the world.

Markus

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^Same here. 99-99.99 % is doing a fantastic job and I salute every police in the world.

Markus

I agree. However, when good cops cover for bad cops, they are no longer good cops

[Col7777]

I just watched the video, I've not seen the others that onlookers took.

I read the guy tried to pass a counterfeit $20 bill, if he knew it or not it's not like he was brandishing a gun or threatening anyone, in other word not a violent crime.
4 cops, one had him pinned down and handcuffed, I read there was one cop holding his legs yet I couldn't see that on this video, so if that is true he was well held down and not struggling.

I couldn't understand why they were holding him down for so long instead of putting him in the police car.


I once saw a police video where they stopped a guy and were holding him up at gun point, the guy had his arms raised.
One cop was yelling at him to lie down, as he went to move the other cop was also yelling at him not to move, in a way it was funny, neither of the cops were listening to what the other was yelling and the guy was nearly shot because of it.

Col.

[Jimbuna]

A police officer fired following the death of unarmed black man George Floyd in Minneapolis has been arrested and charged with murder and manslaughter.

Derek Chauvin is one of four police officers who were fired after Mr Floyd's death in custody on Monday.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52854025

[Skybird]

There are immense differences in training quality between US and European polices. The focus also is different, and most likely far more complex and complete in Europe.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-tr...95546384791691

That article describes an incident from 2015, mentioning that the involved officers got training for just 9 or 11 weeks!

In Germany, it depends whether you become a police officer bei "Ausbildung" or "Studium". It lasts 2.5 and 3 years.

One can expect that in Europe the focus is far more inclusive of soft skills and psychological conflict (and stress) management.

Jim can tell how training is in the UK, I found no real helpful numbers on total training times. Just several courses listed that lasted from several weeks to up to one year, with most or all of them needing to be taken and passed.

It also gets said over here time and again that by comparison a tremendously higher ammount of ex-soldiers join the police in the US. I strongly suspect the military, combat-focussed attitude taught in the military, gets carried over then, including that strongly competitive team spriit of "us against them". Just that warriors should be left in the army, not being put into the civil police force that makes the cops you see on the streets. SWAT and special teams , counter terror and such, okay. But the ordinary police cop? "Soft" may have a foul taste for some, but "soft skills", communication, stress management, psychological handling of people and situation, is important for police work. After all, the streets are not Normandy beach.

That those 57 others quit the emergency support team in solidarity with those two colleagues, by all what is known I conclude shows a troubling mindset and a wrong attitude. They should be removed from police service if supporting the two is their consequence of this action. By all what is known so far.

Warriors into the army, but not into the police. Solidarity and loyalty can be misled. And as my grandfather used to say: there can be no such thing as a "corrupt cop". There only are cops, and corrupt people. Corrupt people are no cops, even if they wear a uniform or have a badge.

[vienna]

This TV news report has a snippet from a surveillance/security camera across the street from the scene where George Floyd died; at about :28 into the report, Floyd is shown being walked by two police officers across the street to a police vehicle as they get to the car, it appears Floyd trips or slips on the edge of the sidewalk next to the vehicle; up to that point, Floyd is not seen giving any resistance to the officers as they usher him to the vehicle:





Note that Floyd falls on the sidewalk side of the vehicle, but the death scene is on the opposite side of the vehicle; it would be interesting to see what happened during the move to the other side of the cruiser. Regardless of what transpired during those moments moving from one side of the vehicle to the other, there is no excuse for the actions of four officers leading a single non-resistant person to a car to use force way out of scale to not only the nature of the alleged crime Floyd was being accused of but, also, towards a compliant suspect. The knee to the neck is reminiscent of the choke/sleeper holds police officers used to use until they were banned in almost all police jurisdictions; the knee to the neck has the same potentially lethal effects of the banned holds: constriction of breathing airways, blockage of major arteries in the neck, the preventing of blood flow to the brain. There are other newly posted videos on YT of the incident, including some police body cam footage, and all, so far, shows a rather routine, non-threatening sort of encounter; officers seem to be almost casual about the whole encounter up until Floyd falls off the curb of the sidewalk. There were two other persons in Floyd's car at the time of his arrest and even they are not resisting and are shown as being rather casual about the situation...

I support the police departments, but I am not blind to the fact there are those who wear the badge who shouldn't. Even among the ranks of the officers, there is a disdain for the rouge or corrupt officers who make it all the more difficult for the vast majority of good officers to do their jobs and gain the trust of those they serve. There is a unit in the LAPD called the Metro Squad that had a very less then stellar reputation; they moved from area to area of the city and were tasked with 'cleaning up' crime rises as they occurred; their tactics, ethics, and morals were the subject of much criticism both inside and outside the force; for decades patrol officers dreaded the appearance of Metro in their areas because Metro would swoop in, indulge in their heavy handed brand of "justice" and leave, leaving the patrol officers to have to deal with the negative fallout from Metros actions. Metro, now, is a whole different team; the ineffectual Police Chief at the time of the 1992 riots was given the boot and subsequent chiefs, notably Bill Bratton, who did a through cleansing and reorganization/modernization of the LAPD, have made the force more acceptable to LA citizens; the level of respect shown to the LAPD officers now is remarkable in contrast with the former levels of distrust and fear...

The time is long overdue for police agencies to face the reality that coddling bad officers is a disservice to the fine work done by the larger majority of good officers; the same goes for the police unions: the automatic, knee-jerk, all-in backing a blatantly bad officers serves no purpose other than the harm of the good officers they are supposed to represent...




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[Platapus]