Things to consider when developing SH4 - Page 2

Egan · 06-12-06, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MENTAT

Unfortunately there are instances of luftwaffe transported food, ammunition and mail to submarines in history Rosencrantz.

It is the first time I have heard of it. I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Do you have a source?

The Morale in the the game is broken to a certain extent. Although it is fixed in the NYGM 2.0 mod.

donut · 06-12-06, 03:45 PM

@MENTAT Sir

Quote:

*Unable to touch anything in command room pisses me off!

If you put your courser on a switch,or instrument,& it turns red,you have touched it,and it works.Among many other things,you can select tubes ,& fire torps from WO station.

In the comand room,try Engine telegraph,I recall it works also

jorgeneo560 · 06-12-06, 07:32 PM

i haven´t reed al the post, are to many

.
But the lite post i have read only have grafics and 3d efects.
But one of the most important´s thing in a game is the history, all sh edtions are of the second war, the war is over man!!! is litte boring (and i am starting to hate the diesel submarines!!!!), i think that a new history i will make much better, something about cold war, or an alternative history.
It will have a lots of new technologies,new submarines (with nuclear reactor inside), torpedos that could have travel to more of 60knts, nuclear missels please

!!.

Drebbel · 06-13-06, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgeneo560

i haven´t reed al the post, are to many

.
But the lite post i have read only have grafics and 3d efects.
But one of the most important´s thing in a game is the history, all sh edtions are of the second war, the war is over man!!! is litte boring (and i am starting to hate the diesel submarines!!!!), i think that a new history i will make much better, something about cold war, or an alternative history.
It will have a lots of new technologies,new submarines (with nuclear reactor inside), torpedos that could have travel to more of 60knts, nuclear missels please

!!.

Please visit this Dangerous Waters forum, lots of modern fast subs with nuke drive there. But be aware: There are many posts there. I hope that does not confuse you.

This is the link to that forum --> http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=181

Drebbel

MENTAT · 06-14-06, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

It is the first time I have heard of it. I'd be interested in hearing more about it. Do you have a source?

Egan, please find my source in the below:

<Herzog, Bodo. Die deutschen U-Boote 1906-1945. Munich: J.F. Lehmanns
Verlag, 1959. Copyright: J.F. Lehmanns Verlag, Munich, 1959.>

In the section titled “Cooperation Between Aircraft and U-boats” (Page
171) there is a photo of U-255 and the BV-138 together.

The photo is taken from a distance and you can’t see exactly what’s going
on however on page 213 there is a better picture and you can see what
appears to be a fuel hose being played out by the U-boat.

Back on page 171 there is also an intriguing photo of a WWI U-boat S.M.
U-12 with seaplane 204 apparently sitting on its deck!

I have placed photos (and an illustration) related to airsupply to rapidshare server which you can find the link below:

http://rapidshare.de/files/23019651/airsupply.rar.html

Onkel Neal · 06-14-06, 04:01 AM

*Everybody is complaining about the crew management but i think it is necessary. It adds a strategic flavor to the game.
I agree 100% A commander has to be aware of his crew, will be nice to see this feature in a US subsim.

*Players should be able to move in the entire boat. To see people in action.
Yep, that would be nice. It would be great if SH4 can add a new compartment, say the engine room or forward torpedo room. Maybe the crew's quarters, where you get yelled at if you make to much noise...

*More of War news, i want to feel that there is a living world around me.
Yeah, the only real criticism I had of SH3, not enough radio messages, war news, other U-boats radio traffic. That game Aces a great flavor. Was really cool/ disturbing when the other U-boats would report their successes or when they would send distress calls that they were sinking.

*Give players an option to play more "hollywood style". Give them the option to choose "historical timeline" or "Sci-fi/hollywood" in the options screen. (Jagged alliance model)Shortly, Increase the variety of upgrades. Let them to choose their ammunition for flak, mines for mining missions. The ability to remove deck-gun for room for additional batteries? Experimental weapon and equipment

awards for most extraordinary succeses. (Panzer General model)
Disagree here, I would not want the dev team to spend any time on Hollywood style. There is always a game called Steel Tide for that.

I remember There was a game in 1985's or so, it was called "Battle of Britain:Their finest hour". It was the game of my life. You were personally planning the attack on England on a strategic map and you were jumping one of the planes in a group and actually fighting for it.
Well, Silent Hunter is supposed to be a first-person subsim, not a strategy game at all. I want to be the captain of a sub, not the admiral.

Good comments.

donut · 06-14-06, 04:52 AM

Howdy Onkel, Ck.my post 5 back On crew management. Did you get VDMSound working,for running SHCE

Please get SHIV. A copy on Crew Management Post

TreverSlyFox · 06-14-06, 05:43 AM

I'm gona jump in here on Crew Management. Yes I think it's necessary, but NOT the way it's implemented in SHIII. The Captain doesn't move each man to his station and back. He may well sit down with his CPO's and set up the rotation. He may well save his best sonar man for when he really needs him, but moving each man to station and back to his rack is just nuts.

If anything he's comming up with stuff to improve moral in his crew and fight boredom. Did he choose to take along cards, chess set, maybe some Extra bottles of wine in his cabin before they left port. Did he make sure his Supply CPO he has on his crew has the "scrounger ability" so he could get things that couldn't be gotten other ways? What abilities did he make sure his Cook had?

Did the Captain make contact with the Black Market operations in his home port before they left through his Supply CPO? Were there times he had to arbatrate in crew matters? How about times crew members came to him for advice. How about the time he had to hold a Captain's Mast at sea, how does it affect the rest of the crew?

There are many things a Captain WOULD DO that affected his crew that could easily be moldeled into the game. But moving each man back and forth isn't one of them.

MENTAT · 06-14-06, 09:28 AM

I completely agree.

06-14-06, 10:55 AM

I used to play Their Finest Hour on my Atari. I liked it, since it was the first game I played in which you could write your own missions. I think, however, that the 'influence the outcome' part was very poorly done. Every single time I played that campaign as a German the Germans won. Couldn't miss, couldn't lose.

I would rather not see that kind of option in SHIV, even if it were done right.

MENTAT · 06-15-06, 05:40 AM

Aye steve, it was poor yet it was fun. I just pointed out just to guide designers. For just a brain storm.

Anyway i still insist that players must feel that they play some part in the victory or defeat . Aint the running, motivating gear behind the military engine is that?

Drebbel · 06-15-06, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MENTAT

Anyway i still insist that players must feel that they play some part in the victory or defeat . Aint the running, motivating gear behind the military engine is that?

When I sink a ship I feel victory, does not matter if we are loosing the whole war or not.

MENTAT · 06-15-06, 08:41 AM

is that what you feel when you were playing a game? or is that what you are going to feel when you are in the battlefield yourself?

A Simulation is the imitation of the reality which is supposed to make you feel as if you were in that situation as real as it is possible.. is it not?

So when you are in the middle of a war by yourself, it does make difference if you are on the winning side or the losing one. And i am sure all your efforts will be to carry your side to the winning side.

Conclusion: A simulation should be bearing this feeling in the name of increasing realism. Anyway everybody is complaining about one man show battles as rambo, or doom , you against the whole world. And victory is yours no matter what, yours only. Eventually, The existance of your mates in your couse is an essentiality.

DeepSix · 06-15-06, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MENTAT

...A Simulation is the imitation of the reality which is supposed to make you feel as if you were in that situation as real as it is possible.. is it not?
....

Yes, and the reality is that Japan lost.

Any other outcome for Silent Hunter IV would make it less of a simulation and more of a game. For a good looking game in which you can alter history, you might like Pacific Storm.... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94493

Drebbel · 06-15-06, 09:41 AM

[quote=Mentat]is that what you feel when you were playing a game?[quote]

Yes ofcourse, gamimh is what we are talking about, right ?

[quote]or is that what you are going to feel when you are in the battlefield yourself?[quote]

probably not. But be honest, no one is gonna buy a sim that gives you the same feeling as when you where in a battle field. Thats why we all try to avoid war in real life

Quote:

A Simulation is the imitation of the reality which is supposed to make you feel as if you were in that situation as real as it is possible.. is it not?

To be honest: NO . I want the simulation to be fun and balanced, that is more important than realism. You want 100% realism ---> Join the navy

Quote:

So when you are in the middle of a war by yourself, it does make difference if you are on the winning side or the losing one. And i am sure all your efforts will be to carry your side to the winning side.

Yes of course, but when in a specific fire fight I would not care about the war, I would be focussed on that battle, winning it, surviving it myself, not for a second I would be worried about the big picture. The whole war/big picture is for the generals and admirals.

Quote:

Conclusion: A simulation should be bearing this feeling in the name of increasing realism.

No, it should not in my opinion.

06-12-06, 07:32 PM	#18
jorgeneo560 Watch Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 25 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	i haven´t reed al the post, are to many. But the lite post i have read only have grafics and 3d efects. But one of the most important´s thing in a game is the history, all sh edtions are of the second war, the war is over man!!! is litte boring (and i am starting to hate the diesel submarines!!!!), i think that a new history i will make much better, something about cold war, or an alternative history. It will have a lots of new technologies,new submarines (with nuclear reactor inside), torpedos that could have travel to more of 60knts, nuclear missels please!!.

06-14-06, 04:01 AM	#21
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,385 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Everybody is complaining about the crew management but i think it is necessary. It adds a strategic flavor to the game. I agree 100% A commander has to be aware of his crew, will be nice to see this feature in a US subsim.* Players should be able to move in the entire boat. To see people in action. Yep, that would be nice. It would be great if SH4 can add a new compartment, say the engine room or forward torpedo room. Maybe the crew's quarters, where you get yelled at if you make to much noise... More of War news, i want to feel that there is a living world around me. Yeah, the only real criticism I had of SH3, not enough radio messages, war news, other U-boats radio traffic. That game Aces a great flavor. Was really cool/ disturbing when the other U-boats would report their successes or when they would send distress calls that they were sinking. Give players an option to play more "hollywood style". Give them the option to choose "historical timeline" or "Sci-fi/hollywood" in the options screen. (Jagged alliance model)Shortly, Increase the variety of upgrades. Let them to choose their ammunition for flak, mines for mining missions. The ability to remove deck-gun for room for additional batteries? Experimental weapon and equipment awards for most extraordinary succeses. (Panzer General model) Disagree here, I would not want the dev team to spend any time on Hollywood style. There is always a game called Steel Tide for that.* I remember There was a game in 1985's or so, it was called "Battle of Britain:Their finest hour". It was the game of my life. You were personally planning the attack on England on a strategic map and you were jumping one of the planes in a group and actually fighting for it. Well, Silent Hunter is supposed to be a first-person subsim, not a strategy game at all. I want to be the captain of a sub, not the admiral. Good comments. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

06-14-06, 05:43 AM	#23
TreverSlyFox Bosun Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 65 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I'm gona jump in here on Crew Management. Yes I think it's necessary, but NOT the way it's implemented in SHIII. The Captain doesn't move each man to his station and back. He may well sit down with his CPO's and set up the rotation. He may well save his best sonar man for when he really needs him, but moving each man to station and back to his rack is just nuts. If anything he's comming up with stuff to improve moral in his crew and fight boredom. Did he choose to take along cards, chess set, maybe some Extra bottles of wine in his cabin before they left port. Did he make sure his Supply CPO he has on his crew has the "scrounger ability" so he could get things that couldn't be gotten other ways? What abilities did he make sure his Cook had? Did the Captain make contact with the Black Market operations in his home port before they left through his Supply CPO? Were there times he had to arbatrate in crew matters? How about times crew members came to him for advice. How about the time he had to hold a Captain's Mast at sea, how does it affect the rest of the crew? There are many things a Captain WOULD DO that affected his crew that could easily be moldeled into the game. But moving each man back and forth isn't one of them. __________________ Be polite, be courtious, be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

06-14-06, 04:52 AM	#22
donut The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The Shifting, Whispering Sands, NM Posts: 1,463 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Howdy Onkel, Ck.my post 5 back On crew management. Did you get VDMSound working,for running SHCE Please get SHIV. A copy on Crew Management Post

06-14-06, 09:28 AM	#24
MENTAT Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mediterranean Posts: 156 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	I completely agree.

06-14-06, 10:55 AM	#25
Sailor Steve Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I used to play Their Finest Hour on my Atari. I liked it, since it was the first game I played in which you could write your own missions. I think, however, that the 'influence the outcome' part was very poorly done. Every single time I played that campaign as a German the Germans won. Couldn't miss, couldn't lose. I would rather not see that kind of option in SHIV, even if it were done right.

06-15-06, 05:40 AM	#26
MENTAT Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mediterranean Posts: 156 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	Aye steve, it was poor yet it was fun. I just pointed out just to guide designers. For just a brain storm. Anyway i still insist that players must feel that they play some part in the victory or defeat . Aint the running, motivating gear behind the military engine is that?

06-15-06, 08:41 AM	#28
MENTAT Sparky Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mediterranean Posts: 156 Downloads: 220 Uploads: 0	is that what you feel when you were playing a game? or is that what you are going to feel when you are in the battlefield yourself? A Simulation is the imitation of the reality which is supposed to make you feel as if you were in that situation as real as it is possible.. is it not? So when you are in the middle of a war by yourself, it does make difference if you are on the winning side or the losing one. And i am sure all your efforts will be to carry your side to the winning side. Conclusion: A simulation should be bearing this feeling in the name of increasing realism. Anyway everybody is complaining about one man show battles as rambo, or doom , you against the whole world. And victory is yours no matter what, yours only. Eventually, The existance of your mates in your couse is an essentiality.