Immersive techniques for the true subsimmer!

[jtsjc1]

https://www.paperlessarchives.com/ww...t-diaries.html

Some very interesting material 4000+ pages!

[bstanko6]

Very nice! Thank you jtsjc] for your contribution!

[jtsjc1]

Originally Posted by bstanko6

Very nice! Thank you jtsjc] for your contribution!

Let me say thank you for all your videos and instructional posts in this thread they're very helpful. I do have a copy of the U-boat Commanders Handbook from your recommendation. Enjoy the War Diaries!

[derstosstrupp]

I did a re-translation of the handbook, check out my signature below. The original wartime translation was not very good, and it lacked a lot of context, so when I re-translated it last year, I added contextual color as well.

[jtsjc1]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

I did a re-translation of the handbook, check out my signature below. The original wartime translation was not very good, and it lacked a lot of context, so when I re-translated it last year, I added contextual color as well.

I downloaded your re-translation and appreciate the time and effort you put into it. That's whats great about this forum and the members. Thank you.

[Jojojung]

@ Tonci87


Top video about the Audampfungsverfahrenl! Helpt me a lot to work with historical methods in TWoS.
Just wait to see the video of the "Auswanderungsverfahren".
Great work!

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

I also ditched the recognition manual, except for warships, or ship classes that were really build to standard measurements (like liberty freighters)

I have the reprint of the Gröner "Handelsflotten der Welt" and this is an authentic way to identify ships. It was converted to a Marinedienstvorschrift instead. The Lloyds Register was also used. So there was identification charts on board.

But your right, the main attacks were based on guessing, I think!

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by Jojojung

I have the reprint of the Gröner "Handelsflotten der Welt" and this is an authentic way to identify ships. It was converted to a Marinedienstvorschrift instead. The Lloyds Register was also used. So there was identification charts on board.

But your right, the main attacks were based on guessing, I think!

Does "Handelsflotten der Welt" include cutouts for ships? Or other means to easily identify a ship visually?

[Jojojung]

Originally Posted by Tonci87

Does "Handelsflotten der Welt" include cutouts for ships? Or other means to easily identify a ship visually?

Yes it does have the silhouette of all the Shops in "Teil B". Its consists of two books. First i thought that it wasnt used because the masthight ist missing in "Teil A". In the tables there are a lot of information of each ship (Name, length, draft etc.) musst bei a few tousend ships. But the silhoutte are true to scale and so you can simply calculate the masthight from the silhoutte.

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by Jojojung

Yes it does have the silhouette of all the Shops in "Teil B". Its consists of two books. First i thought that it wasnt used because the masthight ist missing in "Teil A". In the tables there are a lot of information of each ship (Name, length, draft etc.) musst bei a few tousend ships. But the silhoutte are true to scale and so you can simply calculate the masthight from the silhoutte.

How thick is that book?

Would you personally be able to visually identify a ship with the help of this book? Or is it just too much information to be practicable?

[derstosstrupp]

One thing that is striking when you read the KTBs is how little recognition manuals are mentioned. With very few exceptions, either in the body of the KTB itself or in the accompanying Schußmeldungen (shooting reports) if they are included, you find the word “Ausdampfen”, mostly in relation to determining target speed. The translations on uboatarchive.net mostly give this as “matching”, but that’s not entirely accurate. Better would be “speed by constant bearing”. The procedure was just as Tonci shows in his video, albeit on the surface upon first sighting. In many cases it was done either directly ahead or behind the target, by simply matching the course and adjusting own speed until the target neither closed nor got further away. Time and time again you see “vorgesetzt, Kurs und Fahrt mit xxx Grad und x sm ausgedampft” (Got in front, matched course of xxx and speed of x knots). So if not sure of course and speed, simply accelerate and get in front as quick as you can, put them on your 180, and adjust course and speed while in front such that his bearing doesn’t change and he’s not getting closer or further away, pretty simple really!

Who needs a plotting party, a whole fire control team, a two-man TDC team, and a guy at the radar? Not the Germans! Simple relative angles and simple math with a slide rule or a table, and you’ve got all the information you need.

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

One thing that is striking when you read the KTBs is how little recognition manuals are mentioned. With very few exceptions, either in the body of the KTB itself or in the accompanying Schußmeldungen (shooting reports) if they are included, you find the word “Ausdampfen”, mostly in relation to determining target speed. The translations on uboatarchive.net mostly give this as “matching”, but that’s not entirely accurate. Better would be “speed by constant bearing”. The procedure was just as Tonci shows in his video, albeit on the surface upon first sighting. In many cases it was done either directly ahead or behind the target, by simply matching the course and adjusting own speed until the target neither closed nor got further away. Time and time again you see “vorgesetzt, Kurs und Fahrt mit xxx Grad und x sm ausgedampft” (Got in front, matched course of xxx and speed of x knots). So if not sure of course and speed, simply accelerate and get in front as quick as you can, put them on your 180, and adjust course and speed while in front such that his bearing doesn’t change and he’s not getting closer or further away, pretty simple really!

Who needs a plotting party, a whole fire control team, a two-man TDC team, and a guy at the radar? Not the Germans! Simple relative angles and simple math with a slide rule or a table, and you’ve got all the information you need.

I do this all the time with including from the port or starboard of convoys or singles.
Main way I get the speed, or at least a very close idea of it; just match the target's with yours.

[derstosstrupp]

Originally Posted by John Pancoast

I do this all the time with including from the port or starboard of convoys or singles.
Main way I get the speed, or at least a very close idea of it; just match the target's with yours.

That’s great to hear John! I finally watched bstanko6’s Hunter series too, which is very well done, and I noticed he did a variation of this as well prior to his convoy attack. As was said before, we have a great community here, really appreciates the history and procedures!

[John Pancoast]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

That’s great to hear John! I finally watched bstanko6’s Hunter series too, which is very well done, and I noticed he did a variation of this as well prior to his convoy attack. As was said before, we have a great community here, really appreciates the history and procedures!

[Tonci87]

Originally Posted by derstosstrupp

One thing that is striking when you read the KTBs is how little recognition manuals are mentioned. With very few exceptions, either in the body of the KTB itself or in the accompanying Schußmeldungen (shooting reports) if they are included, you find the word “Ausdampfen”, mostly in relation to determining target speed. The translations on uboatarchive.net mostly give this as “matching”, but that’s not entirely accurate. Better would be “speed by constant bearing”. The procedure was just as Tonci shows in his video, albeit on the surface upon first sighting. In many cases it was done either directly ahead or behind the target, by simply matching the course and adjusting own speed until the target neither closed nor got further away. Time and time again you see “vorgesetzt, Kurs und Fahrt mit xxx Grad und x sm ausgedampft” (Got in front, matched course of xxx and speed of x knots). So if not sure of course and speed, simply accelerate and get in front as quick as you can, put them on your 180, and adjust course and speed while in front such that his bearing doesn’t change and he’s not getting closer or further away, pretty simple really!

Who needs a plotting party, a whole fire control team, a two-man TDC team, and a guy at the radar? Not the Germans! Simple relative angles and simple math with a slide rule or a table, and you’ve got all the information you need.

And remember, Target speed is the most important piece of data to get right!

AOB and distance can be approximated and you will most likely still hit your target. But if you get the speed wrong then you might miss, even at close range.

What I like to do is to cross in front of the target (if possible surfaced). Once I have an AOB of 0° I know the targets course. I then continue until I have an AOB of 20°. I match the targets course and adjust my speed until I have a constant bearing. The targets speed is now the same as mine. Now I can dive and turn 90°. That way I don´t even have to estimate the range

A simple and effective method..... until they start to have escorts with radar, then it gets more complicated.