Wuhan virus 2020

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by August

That is not the death rate for this virus. That might be the death rate for those sick enough to go to the hospital but it's not the overall death rate.

Yeah, that would mean a mortality rate of 13%. Fortunately we are not facing that.

[skidman]

Originally Posted by Skybird

We accept to let our own citizens die just so not to unsettle our Chinese masters in Bejing.

OK. You have crossed the red line. Reading your posts from the last couple of days it's obvious (to me at least) that your mind is more and more controlled by anger and fear. I suggest that you take a break. I'm serious. This is a tough situation for all of us: We are facing a new menace and we are trying our best to cope with it. Most of us are trying to make reasonable decisions. And your Mr.-Know-It-All-attitude is not helpful.

I'm not a fan of the dictatorial regime in the PR of China but we have to admit they have done surprisingly well since the onset of the outbreak. Nobody in Europe actually knows to what extent their statistics are faked, but if the situation over there was still as catastrophic as in Italy and Spain atm, we would hear about it.

Politics of the Western world regarding Taiwan is cautious and well balanced in order to keep Pandora's box shut. Maybe you should talk to people from both sides (PR and Taiwan) to get a better estimate how much is at stake there. Both sides are playing a double game, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

But our policy towards the PR of China in conjunction with the Corona crisis is not killing anybody in Europe or any other Western country. That is simply utter BS.

A last remark on this mask wearing problem that is driving you crazy: As a biologist with at least some knowledge of microbiology, molecular genetics and epidemiology I have made this decision:

I'm not wearing a mask, because in my present situation (helping our staff and our customers with their home office / vpn / video conferencing setup 12 to 14 hours per day remotely and on-site, traveling by public transport to a great extent) I would need lots and lots of them. We are lacking masks and they should be primarily available to the health personnel. This doesn't mean I am taking unnecessary risks. I keep the mandated distance, I wash and disinfect my hands as often as I can and I am wearing gloves when using someone else's keyboard/mouse/laptop.

I just talked to a friend who knows how to operate a sewing machine and she offered to make some masks for me. I opted for the flower pattern and the blue ribbons.

Again: I made a reasonable assessment and the last thing I need is someone sitting on his bum, vigorously hacking his hate and anguish into his computer claiming he is the only one who gets it right.

[Dowly]

Hear Hear!

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by skidman

OK. You have crossed the red line. Reading your posts from the last couple of days it's obvious (to me at least) that your mind is more and more controlled by anger and fear. I suggest that you take a break. I'm serious. This is a tough situation for all of us: We are facing a new menace and we are trying our best to cope with it. Most of us are trying to make reasonable decisions. And your Mr.-Know-It-All-attitude is not helpful.

I'm not a fan of the dictatorial regime in the PR of China but we have to admit they have done surprisingly well since the onset of the outbreak. Nobody in Europe actually knows to what extent their statistics are faked, but if the situation over there was still as catastrophic as in Italy and Spain atm, we would hear about it.

Politics of the Western world regarding Taiwan is cautious and well balanced in order to keep Pandora's box shut. Maybe you should talk to people from both sides (PR and Taiwan) to get a better estimate how much is at stake there. Both sides are playing a double game, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

But our policy towards the PR of China in conjunction with the Corona crisis is not killing anybody in Europe or any other Western country. That is simply utter BS.

A last remark on this mask wearing problem that is driving you crazy: As a biologist with at least some knowledge of microbiology, molecular genetics and epidemiology I have made this decision:

I'm not wearing a mask, because in my present situation (helping our staff and our customers with their home office / vpn / video conferencing setup 12 to 14 hours per day remotely and on-site, traveling by public transport to a great extent) I would need lots and lots of them. We are lacking masks and they should be primarily available to the health personnel. This doesn't mean I am taking unnecessary risks. I keep the mandated distance, I wash and disinfect my hands as often as I can and I am wearing gloves when using someone else's keyboard/mouse/laptop.

I just talked to a friend who knows how to operate a sewing machine and she offered to make some masks for me. I opted for the flower pattern and the blue ribbons.

Again: I made a reasonable assessment and the last thing I need is someone sitting on his bum, vigorously hacking his hate and anguish into his computer claiming he is the only one who gets it right.

Obviously not half as reasonable as you think you are, for example "mandatory distances", the MIT had just somethign to say on these and the just cinformed what I say since weeks. Or to use mask after mask after mask while I just said the opposite and to manage limited resoucres. On Taiwan you disagree, okay, so be it, bit I stick to what I say abiout China, and say since long: they are not our allies and not our friends and nnever were and most likely never will be, since they are econmic rivals and military enemies in the future.

But okay, keep your closet door shut.Its yours, not mine.


P.S. Masks, you wise man, do not only protect you from others, they also protect the others FROM YOU. Because you do not know whether you are infected or not, and cnanot know until you do not test yourself every day new. Thast why in German hspitals staff in corona treatnment gets tested at least every second day. I said that I prepared already before all this started, but even now you can buy masks at ebay from stocks that hospitals do not try to aquire due to the prices. That you still run yround and defnd to not wear maks and accept that you run around and infest other,s is unexcusable and the same nonsense that catfish unto, ecently has spread. You are wrong there, Mr. Biologist. Even plain reasons fails you on this issue. If you really hjav ered evertyhign that I repeatedly poste dont hsi issue to overcome foolish opinions like yours, you can see what ther eis to do: get any kind of mask, protect yourself, protect others fro yourself, an issue of politeness isnt it, and do nto act as if it were a perfect world and ideal conditions: sterilize your maks and use it repeatedly. Make the best of the ressources avialable. They do like this in hospitals, out of need. It gets increaisngly recommend. States slowly sneak towards making masks mandatory to wear.


And you still dare to tell people thy should maximum expose themselves and should carry on infest others? Have you noticed what the implciation of that MIT study is, a concluison that already plain reasons dictates, thats why I tell it since weeks earlier already? 8m, THAT is your social distance. And it is pratcially impossible inside buldiygs to maintain, even ont he street it is difficult. The WHO talks BS.


You may want to watch the latest video by Martenson I linked above, he has a far more sane and reaosnable and knowjng approach to these thigns thna you. yours simply is irresponisble.

[Jimbuna]

American Airlines, one of the world's richest carriers, says it will apply for $12bn (£9.7bn) in government aid.

British Airways is suspending all flights from London's Gatwick airport, the UK's second busiest.

UK health officials says the nationwide stay at home advice is "making a difference"

The virus has killed more than 33,000 people around the world, says the WHO.

President Trump says the US will have enough ventilators to meet demand.

The World Bank says "significant economic pain seems unavoidable" in the Asia Pacific region.

New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo says the scale of coronavirus deaths is "staggering"

[Jimbuna]

Sales of groceries in the UK in March beat all previous records as shoppers stocked up for a long period at home, according to consumer analysts Kantar.

The busiest spell was 16-19 March, when 88% of households visited a food store, adding up to 42 million extra trips across four days.

In the last four weeks, year-on-year supermarket sales grew by 20.6%.

Kantar's Fraser McKevitt said £10.8bn sales in the past four weeks were "even higher than levels seen at Christmas".

The figures have mainly risen because of people making extra shopping trips, rather than spending more on each visit.

The average household spent an extra £62.92 during the past four weeks, equivalent to adding five days' worth of groceries.

London had the biggest increase, with grocery spending up by 26% during the month.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52102906

Hardly surprising and probably predictable.

[Skybird]

German Robert-Koch-Institute says they ran 350 thousand tests last week. That is the current maximum possible with current laboratories. If true, i am impressed, just one week ago they still were at 160 thousand, and one week or ten days before that they said 80 thousand.

More German cities consider making the wearing of face masks mandatory. Better late than never! Health experts in the coalition government also have started to publicly consider and demanding it two, three days ago.


Drosten has explained why for so long time the number of fatalities and severe cases was so low in Germany. He said Germany started tracking earlier than anyone else in Europe, and the infection was imported by German ski tourists in the Alps, Italy and Austria. These for the main were young and mid-age people with sporting health and strong physis, therefore many of them were able to fight the desease off quite easily. Now that the infection has spread into the ordinary population, death rates and number of severe cases have started to rise.


And in Italy the trend now is clear and verified: they are successfully flattening the curve!

[Skybird]

https://translate.google.de/translat...aske-1.4863483


^ This newspaper is one of Germany's most left-leaning national newspapers - and even they come around.


And finally, one thing. You should not just protect the others from yourself, but also should prpotect yourself form the others. If you do not become ill, you stay healthy - and by that you do not become a burden for the hosptials and nurses and doctors.

To protect yourself, to stay healthy yourself this way can be seen as everyone's civil duty.

[ikalugin]

https://iz.ru/993698/2020-03-31/gosd...yandex.ru/news

Russian parliament passes law with harsh punishments for qurantine breakers. Around 10 Moscow median wages or 1-2 years in prison for violation, more if it lead to infections and deaths of others.

https://rospotrebnadzor.ru/about/inf...EMENT_ID=14147

Today 27 percent growth in cases has been reported, most of them in Moscow

https://translate.google.ru/#view=ho...minzdrav.ru%2F

Official website covering COVID-19 situation in Russia

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Russian parliament passes law with harsh punishments for qurantine breakers. Around 10 Moscow median wages or 1-2 years in prison for violation, more if it lead to infections and deaths of others.

Thats the way to go. Ignoring quarantine orders should be treated as "negligent slaughter". Personal freedom ends where it claims the right to seirously harm others, even bringing them to death or lasting health deficits for the rest of their lives.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Thats the way to go. Ignoring quarantine orders should be treated as "negligent slaughter". Personal freedom ends where it claims the right to seirously harm others, even bringing them to death or lasting health deficits for the rest of their lives.

In principle I agree, but I can see how such a law can be abused in Russia.


Otherwise it does make sense as a part of the overall legal package, the moment we have seen signs of mass transmission within Russia we quickly introduced quarantine (on the 30th in Moscow under the authority of the Moscow governor, on 31st in many other regions after Putin authorised it on the big conference on 30th) so it makes sense as part of the package. Overall it took around 6 days for all the legal preparations it seems.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And finally, one thing. You should not just protect the others from yourself, but also should prpotect yourself form the others. If you do not become ill, you stay healthy - and by that you do not become a burden for the hosptials and nurses and doctors.

To protect yourself, to stay healthy yourself this way can be seen as everyone's civil duty.

The sad part of this whole exercise is that the virus will not be spread by responsible citizens. It will be spread by the stupids, those that just don't care or those who are clueless about the severity of it all. Every society has more than enough of these types.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by u crank

The sad part of this whole exercise is that the virus will not be spread by responsible citizens. It will be spread by the stupids, those that just don't care or those who are clueless about the severity of it all. Every society has more than enough of these types.

Remember patient 31 from ROK?

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

American Airlines, one of the world's richest carriers, says it will apply for $12bn (£9.7bn) in government aid.

British Airways is suspending all flights from London's Gatwick airport, the UK's second busiest.

UK health officials says the nationwide stay at home advice is "making a difference"

The virus has killed more than 33,000 people around the world, says the WHO.

President Trump says the US will have enough ventilators to meet demand.

The World Bank says "significant economic pain seems unavoidable" in the Asia Pacific region.

New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo says the scale of coronavirus deaths is "staggering"

The American Airlines item is most annoying; it seems there will be little, if any, US government oversight of the "stimulus" fund disbursement since the administration is reusing to honor the letter and spirit of the law calling for transparency and responsibility...


In California, the ventilators sent from Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) were found, upon receipt to be broken and Governor Newsom had to find a means of having them repaired immediately; it was fortunate that some private industries/companies stepped up and offered to do the repairs for free...

Elsewhere in the US, states are waiting for the Administration-promised disbursement of urgently needed medical equipment, including ventilators; companies who manufacture the items say they have inventory ready to be shipped but have yet to hear from FEMA as to where and in what quantities the items are to be shipped...

An engineering postgraduate student at the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) responded to a world-wide challenge to engineers to create an easy to build DIY ventilator for hospital use; he came up with a prototype made from items to be found in a good-sized hardware store; it may look a bit like a Rube Goldberg imagining, but the science and engineering behind the prototype is sound:


UCLA Engineer Made a Ventilator from Hardware Items --

https://gineersnow.com/engineering/b...hardware-items


If for some reason you are unable to view the embedded video in the above article, here is the YT clip:





A number of medical supply companies have expressed interest in the engineer's prototype and work is now being done to recreate the device using medical grade materials and, after some tests, it is hoped to produce similar devices quickly to aid in relieving the ventilator shortages...


The scale of deaths is staggering, indeed; the latest US expert estimates are a possible high of 200,000 deaths in the US this year alone; as a bit of perspective, that total would be more than three times the total fatalities of over 58,000 suffered by the US during the entire Vietnam War which lasted over all about 20 years...









<O>

[Skybird]

From 20:00 on you can listen to two really remarkably stupid women. I actually enjoyed listenign to them, like I enjoyed watching Police Academy 1 in my teen years and laughed with tears in my eyes. In Martenson'S words: "I rate this as self-inflicted wounds."

Originally Posted by Skybird