US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by August

From what I understand Boltons book contains classified material, some of it rated Top Secret, and he was just told to remove it before publishing,

And who says that this claim is true? Says the accused (his accomplices). who wants the book prohibited because it is to his personal disadvantage.

I say again, Bolton is in business long enough to know what top secret and classified material is. At least one would expect that. He would not intentionally make himself vulnerable by releasing classified material.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And who says that this claim is true? Says the accused (his accomplices). who wants the book prohibited because it is to his personal disadvantage.

I say again, Bolton is in business long enough to know what top secret and classified material is. At least one would expect that. He would not intentionally make himself vulnerable by releasing classified material.

Bolton will have to live by the rules that will be inforced by the National Security Council. Like it or not. But I'm sure Bolton knows this. He has been in high profile posts before.

“Under federal law and the nondisclosure agreements your client signed as a condition for gaining access to classified information, the manuscript may not be published or otherwise disclosed without the deletion of this classified information,” said the letter, dated Jan. 23, a copy of which was reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. The letter was signed by Ellen Knight, senior director for Records, Access and Information Security Management at the NSC.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-h...is-11580332992

Former administration officials who have held a security clearance are required to submit manuscripts to the agency that held their clearance—in Mr. Bolton’s case, the NSC. Federal law prohibits the disclosure of classified information. As part of the process of obtaining a security clearance, Mr. Bolton had to agree to obtain signoff from the administration before disclosing information about his time at the White House, including by writing a book.

CNN's framing of the letter as a 'threat' is typical 'bombshell' reporting. It's standard procedure.

[Rockstar]

and lets not kid ourselves either, controversy sells books.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Fact is that not even every fifth citizen eligible to vote, voted for Trump, if I recall it correctly. clinton got more votes.


the whole concept of electoral college today is obscur and dubios. it allows minorities to defeat majorities and thus destroys the very idea of majority voting.



nothing in that system to be celebrated as holy and best of the best. its one of the worst and most corrupted systems i know. additionally to the parties own level of inherent corruption.

Bill's wife got ~ 3 million more votes than Trump,
https://www.270towin.com/2016_Election/

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Lil boy was defeated by number of votes. your system is manipulation of the laws of math. voting districts get hilariously fought about their exact borders to deny voting majorities within one districts borders to the other party or secure that bordrts are such that one party has an own majority. its a known problem and one that gets criticised time and again.
And you know it.
Fact is that not even every fifth citizen eligible to vote, voted for Trump, if I recall it correctly. clinton got more votes.


the whole concept of electoral college today is obscur and dubios. it allows minorities to defeat majorities and thus destroys the very idea of majority voting.



nothing in that system to be celebrated as holy and best of the best. its one of the worst and most corrupted systems i know. additionally to the parties own level of inherent corruption.

It does not matter. The game is not played by the number of votes. Trump was playing the correct game and won. I have no idea what Hillary Clinton was playing. At the end of the day, no matter how obscure or whatever..the electoral college serves a purpose.

The look of a person who sat her laurels and figured it was in the bag:

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

And who says that this claim is true? Says the accused (his accomplices). who wants the book prohibited because it is to his personal disadvantage.

I say again, Bolton is in business long enough to know what top secret and classified material is. At least one would expect that. He would not intentionally make himself vulnerable by releasing classified material.

Book sales will be up for Bolton who dislikes Trump for sending him packing. There is no doubt Bolton was looking to score a retirement with writing a book about the "Trump Years". This impeachment hearing landed in his lap as a great launch pad for sales to skyrocket. See it for what it is. Furthermore, Schiff years ago said Bolton was less than stellar with, well, anything. But today Bolton is a star witness with book in hand. As Trump tweeted...GAME OVER.

This crap and conspiracy has gone on so long I have forgotten what the "articles of impeachment" are. J-walking or something? Such a damn waste of time and money.

Has anyone seen the Russians and collusion? I visited Trump Tower in NY. I did not see Russians there either.

At the end of the day...HILLARY was supposed to win. None of the Hunter Biden under investigation(dad saved is butt and make millions as well), Russian collusion with the DNC and Obama's hand in the 2016 election was NOT to come out in the sunlight. But here we are on the cusp of some very interesting happenings with the Bidens and the Ukraine.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

It does not matter. The game is not played by the number of votes. Trump was playing the correct game and won. I have no idea what Hillary Clinton was playing. At the end of the day, no matter how obscure or whatever..the electoral college serves a purpose.

Its a rigged game, plain and simple. It always has been. And nobody should dare to claim that this system is a "democratic" one. It'S not, not in the meaning of "democratic" in modern reinterpretation of te word, nor in the meaning of the very different ancient Greek conception of the term and by the ancient Greek city states' example. All Wetsern models are what ancient Greek wpouiöld label as the antagonoist of true dmeocracy, they would see it is tyranny, a mix of the three base formats they knew of "tyrannis".



I do not mean no unilaterally bash the Us here, its illustrated by me many times that I bash other states, including Germany and Europe, as harsh as well. Its just that the U poses in the world as being the shining role model for all world to admire and follow. It isn'T. Its as corrupted, maybe even worse so due to its immense power and the fallout that creates, than all others as well.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Has anyone seen the Russians and collusion? I visited Trump Tower in NY. I did not see Russians there either.

No comment.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Bill's wife got ~ 3 million more votes than Trump,
https://www.270towin.com/2016_Election/

Yes. And I add this, it calculates the non-voters into it as well. Some of them are lazy or donot care. But then tzhere are so many who are like me, and chose to actively deny giving legitimation to a rigged show and dubious personnel.

Trump can unite only 18% of the totla population behind his vote. Of those citizens who are eligible to vote, which obviously is a lower number than the total population, he unites just a bit more than one quarter.

That means almost three quarters of the citizens eligible to vote3, denied to give him their vote. And 82% of the total population in the US did not vote for him.

So much for that. Trump is not represtentative, in no way, for the population of the US. He only benefits from riugged rules of a rigged system.


Thats what foreigners should not forget when wanting to condemn all Americans alltogether. It would be unfair. The overwhelming majority refuses to support him.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its a rigged game, plain and simple. It always has been. And nobody should dare to claim that this system is a "democratic" one. It'S not, not in the meaning of "democratic" in modern reinterpretation of te word, nor in the meaning of the very different ancient Greek conception of the term and by the ancient Greek city states' example. All Wetsern models are what ancient Greek wpouiöld label as the antagonoist of true dmeocracy, they would see it is tyranny, a mix of the three base formats they knew of "tyrannis".



I do not mean no unilaterally bash the Us here, its illustrated by me many times that I bash other states, including Germany and Europe, as harsh as well. Its just that the U poses in the world as being the shining role model for all world to admire and follow. It isn'T. Its as corrupted, maybe even worse so due to its immense power and the fallout that creates, than all others as well.

It is highly unlikely the forefathers that worked on and instituted the electoral college did so knowing it was a rigged game. The US is not a democracy, so you are correct, no one would or should call the system "democratic". But again, relevant or not, Trump and his team played the electoral college game and won. That is how it is played by the rules instituted. We can talk about it for years but it will not change the outcome of the 2016 election. I do not see the electoral college going away in your and my lifetime. As such, those running better figure out the game as quickly as Trump.


How a person who has nothing but a life of political experience, backed by people with a life of political experience lose the electoral college game is beyond me. She fell asleep at the helm(again) and lost at her own game. A game that was rigged in her favor!

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Skybird

No comment.

I'm certain you have a comment. You just have not formulated it.

[mapuc]

Important of all - It's their election system and it's only around a Presidential election voices are raised to change it.

True Hillary got a lot more votes then Trump

From my memory(days after the election in 2016)

In the Danish primetime news program

Hillary won the biggest cities and the American with an average income above---something(forgot the word)

Trump won the Midwest and people with low income

(there are of course rich people who vote Dem or Rep and poor who do the same.

When this reporter told those things I do remember thinking of what some of you had written here on our forum and what some of my friends wrote on FB.

Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

The Electoral College is what it is. It is actually the same basic model that you have for elections in the UK or Canada. With a first past the post system, you can get into a situation where one party gets more seats (electoral votes) even though another party gets more votes.

We just had an election in Canada in 2019. Trudeau's Liberals got less votes (5.9 million) than the conservatives (6.1 million), but the liberals won 157 seats to the Conservatives 121, which is why Trudeau jr. is still PM.

The difference between Canadians and Americans is that we are not going to spend the next 2-3 years arguing that Trudeau's election was illegitimate.

The important thing in a Democracy is that the rules are known beforehand and applied the same to every candidate. Trump won fair and square. Period.

[MaDef]

The important thing in a Democracy is that the rules are known beforehand and applied the same to every candidate. Trump won fair and square. Period.

Pelosi & friends haven't gotten that memo.

[Onkel Neal]

Impeachment: it ends today.