Manual targeting errors

Mios 4Me · 01-06-20, 03:15 PM

My first patrol, testing on stock 1.5, went reasonably well against individual merchies, so when a TF and I intercepted each other on the second one, I said "why not?" and saved the game, thinkiing it would be good for training.

The good news is that I quickly sank four battleships.

Two of which I had actually aimed at.

Yeah, serendipity, I know. Good problem to have, right?

I set up on a Fuso leading the column, put in all the data, fired, and went up to watch the tracks. All four took a hard right, almost as if they were homing on the following Ise. All four hit.

Another time I fired at the passing Ise; the first four came out, took a hard left and hit a maneuvering Kongo in the next column over. Both of these attacks were on the targets' port side.

Another Fuso was severely damaged by three Mk 14s that hit just forward of his rudder. I'd actually fired a spread (one missed) but all three hit in the same spot.

It's possible, if not exactly probable, that I set up on the wrong BB in the first case, but I'm certain not in the others. Torpedo doors were open in virtually all cases; I'm pausing the game to get AOB (and making sure port and starboard orientations are correct) and I'm certain of the IDs. Attack ranges are from 400-850 meters and when I shoot spreads, it's done evenly (1-5 units). Even so, it seems like they all miss or hit, if fired together; often they will hit in the same space.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Mios 4Me · 01-06-20, 06:32 PM

Possibly a better diagnostic from the latest attempt:

- Set up on a Fuso's starboard beam from ~800m and 90 degrees from the course track. Opened four torpedo doors at 30m depth and set 2 torpedoes to 10m and 2 to 3m, all at high speed.

- Raised scope, acquired and locked target, selected Fuso from the book, activated the PK, dialled in the stadimeter (placed waterline of upper image just atop highest mast), took AOB of 61 degrees (protractor line from bow to center of target, then to center of sub), and requested speed.

- Reply was insufficient data, so repeated the distance and AOB readings (AOB was now 71 degrees) and received an estimate of 10 kts.

- Fired two torpedoes at 0 and the other two at 3 to the right.

- Popped up to view the attack: Fuso was at 90 degrees, one torpedo was not visible, and the other three were merrily bubbling their way 45 degrees behind the Fuso.

I did not hear any alarms until the wakes were spotted.

Mios 4Me · 01-10-20, 11:48 PM

Okay, I found Rockin Robbins' O'Kane video and written guide in the Skippers' Bag of Tricks and have been testing that against a 5kt Large Passenger Liner to mixed results. One torpedo hit where I aimed but second one followed it rather than hitting forward, despite changing the AOB. Then on the next series, the real crazy came out again:

- Plotted the approach from near detection range, updating four times prior to firing. Set up for an 80 degree firing position from 700m on the target's starboard side, opened both torpedo doors, set torpedo depth, speed, and detonation, then waited until the liner was 1000m or less from there, then entered 0 degree range twice, AOB 80 degrees (stb side) twice, and 5kts speed twice, and waited.

- Fired first torpedo at the aft stack as it hit 80 degrees, aligned the periscope to hit the forward kingpost, changed the AOB to 85 degrees, again clicking twice, and fired. i did NOT use the PK or lock on target at any point.

- Both torpedoes ran off 45 degrees behind the target.

This has happened following ThreeDot's tutorial, TheBebster's, and now Rockin Robbins'.

WTH? Could shelling out of the game a couple of times cause this kind of glitching or am I missing something fundamental?

propbeanie · 01-11-20, 10:33 AM

Yes, shelling out of the game can and does cause inexplicable issues. From graphics anomalies all the way to CTDs. Just be sure that you have the correct tubes selected, and as RR points out, hit your "send" buttons twice. I will still every once in a while, send the torps off to points unknown, just by little mistakes. To hit a different spot on a ship, I usually use the middle angle deflection dial. Of course, that can contribute to wild misses ahead and behind...

Mios 4Me · 01-11-20, 07:41 PM

Thanks, Propbeanie. I haven't seen anything yet on how to use the deflection dial - are there any rules of thumb?

propbeanie · 01-11-20, 09:30 PM

Yes there is... but I cannot recall... each degree is worth so many feet left or right at a given distance... sheesh... where is my brain... this is why I get it backwards sometimes...

I used to have that stuff sitting right next to the computer in a notebook... now I have this other notebook, full of all sorts of modding gobble-dee-gook...

jimmbbo · 01-12-20, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

Thanks, Propbeanie. I haven't seen anything yet on how to use the deflection dial - are there any rules of thumb?

If I remember my high school trigonometry, a 1.0 degree displacement at 1000 yards would be

1000 * sin (1.0) or
1000 * 0.0174 = 17.4 yards
17.4 yards x 3 = ~52 feet

Mios 4Me · 01-12-20, 10:46 PM

Wow, that's quite a spread at the far end of the scale at 20 degrees. Presumably that's for a fast-moving, close target whose speed you're really guessing at?

Propbeanie, I restarted the patrol and now O'Kane and Cromwell targeting are suddenly working, at least in ambushes. E.g. I sank three out of four tankers in one salvo and a freighter in the next line as momentum carried it into my line of fire using O'Kane.

jimmbbo · 01-13-20, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mios 4Me

Wow, that's quite a spread at the far end of the scale at 20 degrees. Presumably that's for a fast-moving, close target whose speed you're really guessing at?

Propbeanie, I restarted the patrol and now O'Kane and Cromwell targeting are suddenly working, at least in ambushes. E.g. I sank three out of four tankers in one salvo and a freighter in the next line as momentum carried it into my line of fire using O'Kane.

The calculations exclude speed and are just the amount of distance one degree of spread angle would generate per 1000 yards from the target...

I have also had success using the 90 degree O'Kane method and appreciate its simplicity.

Mios 4Me · 01-13-20, 02:30 AM

True, just wondering why one would need 20 degrees of spread in one direction or another. First thought was as a shotgun approach to a large, fast mover whose speed isn't known. If there's another reason, I'd love to hear it.

propbeanie · 01-13-20, 05:39 PM

why, 20 degrees is for the jack-rabbit DD that do zero to 190 in 3.2 ms flat, and are able to turn 22° inside 30 yards...

01-06-20, 03:15 PM	#1
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Manual targeting errors My first patrol, testing on stock 1.5, went reasonably well against individual merchies, so when a TF and I intercepted each other on the second one, I said "why not?" and saved the game, thinkiing it would be good for training. The good news is that I quickly sank four battleships. Two of which I had actually aimed at. Yeah, serendipity, I know. Good problem to have, right? I set up on a Fuso leading the column, put in all the data, fired, and went up to watch the tracks. All four took a hard right, almost as if they were homing on the following Ise. All four hit. Another time I fired at the passing Ise; the first four came out, took a hard left and hit a maneuvering Kongo in the next column over. Both of these attacks were on the targets' port side. Another Fuso was severely damaged by three Mk 14s that hit just forward of his rudder. I'd actually fired a spread (one missed) but all three hit in the same spot. It's possible, if not exactly probable, that I set up on the wrong BB in the first case, but I'm certain not in the others. Torpedo doors were open in virtually all cases; I'm pausing the game to get AOB (and making sure port and starboard orientations are correct) and I'm certain of the IDs. Attack ranges are from 400-850 meters and when I shoot spreads, it's done evenly (1-5 units). Even so, it seems like they all miss or hit, if fired together; often they will hit in the same space. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

01-11-20, 10:33 AM	#4
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Yes, shelling out of the game can and does cause inexplicable issues. From graphics anomalies all the way to CTDs. Just be sure that you have the correct tubes selected, and as RR points out, hit your "send" buttons twice. I will still every once in a while, send the torps off to points unknown, just by little mistakes. To hit a different spot on a ship, I usually use the middle angle deflection dial. Of course, that can contribute to wild misses ahead and behind... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

01-11-20, 09:30 PM	#6
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	Yes there is... but I cannot recall... each degree is worth so many feet left or right at a given distance... sheesh... where is my brain... this is why I get it backwards sometimes... I used to have that stuff sitting right next to the computer in a notebook... now I have this other notebook, full of all sorts of modding gobble-dee-gook... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

01-13-20, 05:39 PM	#11
propbeanie CTD - it's not just a job Join Date: May 2016 Location: One hour from Music City USA! Posts: 10,098 Downloads: 451 Uploads: 2	why, 20 degrees is for the jack-rabbit DD that do zero to 190 in 3.2 ms flat, and are able to turn 22° inside 30 yards... __________________ "...and bollocks to the naysayers" - Jimbuna

01-06-20, 06:32 PM	#2
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Possibly a better diagnostic from the latest attempt: - Set up on a Fuso's starboard beam from ~800m and 90 degrees from the course track. Opened four torpedo doors at 30m depth and set 2 torpedoes to 10m and 2 to 3m, all at high speed. - Raised scope, acquired and locked target, selected Fuso from the book, activated the PK, dialled in the stadimeter (placed waterline of upper image just atop highest mast), took AOB of 61 degrees (protractor line from bow to center of target, then to center of sub), and requested speed. - Reply was insufficient data, so repeated the distance and AOB readings (AOB was now 71 degrees) and received an estimate of 10 kts. - Fired two torpedoes at 0 and the other two at 3 to the right. - Popped up to view the attack: Fuso was at 90 degrees, one torpedo was not visible, and the other three were merrily bubbling their way 45 degrees behind the Fuso. I did not hear any alarms until the wakes were spotted.

01-10-20, 11:48 PM	#3
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Okay, I found Rockin Robbins' O'Kane video and written guide in the Skippers' Bag of Tricks and have been testing that against a 5kt Large Passenger Liner to mixed results. One torpedo hit where I aimed but second one followed it rather than hitting forward, despite changing the AOB. Then on the next series, the real crazy came out again: - Plotted the approach from near detection range, updating four times prior to firing. Set up for an 80 degree firing position from 700m on the target's starboard side, opened both torpedo doors, set torpedo depth, speed, and detonation, then waited until the liner was 1000m or less from there, then entered 0 degree range twice, AOB 80 degrees (stb side) twice, and 5kts speed twice, and waited. - Fired first torpedo at the aft stack as it hit 80 degrees, aligned the periscope to hit the forward kingpost, changed the AOB to 85 degrees, again clicking twice, and fired. i did NOT use the PK or lock on target at any point. - Both torpedoes ran off 45 degrees behind the target. This has happened following ThreeDot's tutorial, TheBebster's, and now Rockin Robbins'. WTH? Could shelling out of the game a couple of times cause this kind of glitching or am I missing something fundamental?

01-11-20, 07:41 PM	#5
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Thanks, Propbeanie. I haven't seen anything yet on how to use the deflection dial - are there any rules of thumb?

01-12-20, 10:46 PM	#8
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Wow, that's quite a spread at the far end of the scale at 20 degrees. Presumably that's for a fast-moving, close target whose speed you're really guessing at? Propbeanie, I restarted the patrol and now O'Kane and Cromwell targeting are suddenly working, at least in ambushes. E.g. I sank three out of four tankers in one salvo and a freighter in the next line as momentum carried it into my line of fire using O'Kane.

01-13-20, 02:30 AM	#10
Mios 4Me Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 394 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	True, just wondering why one would need 20 degrees of spread in one direction or another. First thought was as a shotgun approach to a large, fast mover whose speed isn't known. If there's another reason, I'd love to hear it.