Blue Water Development Diary

longface · 11-27-19, 05:14 PM

Great work, looks wonderful! One thing to add: at low earth orbit, I believe that the lower atmospheric limb becomes visible as a sort of blue haze climbing into space. It would be wonderful to see that modeled!

Edit: I see that it's already there to some extent, but it's not all that apparent.

FPSchazly · 12-02-19, 10:28 PM

Damn, those northern lights are pretty cool

BungoJungo · 12-03-19, 11:14 AM

Really excited for this, it looks great! Appreciate the updates

AzureSkies · 12-04-19, 12:24 AM

Hello again, everyone,

Much of the work recently has been clearing up programming debt (ie, debugging and optimizing) and code not quite ready to show off, but there is one thing ready to show off: improving the high-altitude visuals with respect to the Earth's atmospheric haze is relatively easy, so here's some update on that.

If you find pictures of Earth from the ISS (and make sure it's not a narrow field of view or high-exposure picture) you'll realize the haze is actually very narrow from orbital altitudes.

280 km.

From high endo-atmospheric altitudes, it's considerably more visible. After all, this is more than 3x closer to the ground.

This kind of altitude may be relevant for things like ballistic missile interception.

80 km.

And going down to the service ceiling of the U-2 or SR-71/A-12 spyplanes or the MiG-31 (just a little higher than the MiG-25's service ceiling)...

80,000 feet.

Around the service ceiling of most aircraft, 50,000 feet.

Familiar as a typical cruising altitude for long airline flights, 30,000 feet.

15,000 feet

and just above sea level.

That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing.

AzureSkies · 12-11-19, 05:38 PM

Hello again, everyone.

A day late, but not a dollar short... hopefully. Recent work has continued with more back-end code and implementing radar directors for SAMs. These are pretty important, placing somewhat significant limitations on the engagement and performance abilities of a system (such as some serious performance limitations when engaging enemies from multiple directions), as well as being the vulnerable target of Anti-Radiation Missiles such as the AGM-78 Standard ARM (the predecessor of the AGM-88 HARM, which wouldn't enter service until '85). Knock out a radar director, and the armament of missiles is useless - unless there's another the enemies could use.

The guidance simulation also has some interesting realistic effects - like for example, the effective range against a maneuvering target is going to be significantly lower than the effective range against a slower or less maneuvering target. So although the range of the Grumble may only be listed as 75 km, a helicopter may not be safe from even 100 km, and a fast and maneuverable jet will probably be relatively safe at 70 km (if it responds appropriately).

And when it comes time to simulate decoys and jamming, it's already halfway written and should work very realistically as well.

That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing.

Herman · 12-11-19, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureSkies

Recent work has continued with more back-end code and implementing radar directors for SAMs. These are pretty important, placing somewhat significant limitations on the engagement and performance abilities of a system (such as some serious performance limitations when engaging enemies from multiple directions)

Once a target has been destroyed, will there be any delay in engagement of subsequent targets? Most games seem to make subsequent target engagement cycles virtually instantaneous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureSkies

So although the range of the Grumble may only be listed as 75 km, a helicopter may not be safe from even 100 km, and a fast and maneuverable jet will probably be relatively safe - if it responds appropriately - at 70 km.

Is an evasive manoeuvre by the target while the inbound SAM is still 70km distant a realistic tactic? I always thought that SAMs were more easily defeated if the target performed a sudden manoeuvre at a shorter distance so that the tiny fins on the SAM could not adjust quickly enough to follow the target. A distance of 70km would allow a SAM to follow the evasive manouevre and make corrections with relative ease. I do not know at what distance the 'sweet spot' might be, but it does not sound reasonable for it to be 70 kilometres.

AzureSkies · 12-12-19, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman

Once a target has been destroyed, will there be any delay in engagement of subsequent targets? Most games seem to make subsequent target engagement cycles virtually instantaneous.

There will be a slight delay, the length of which depends on a few factors and how you've issued the orders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman

Is an evasive manoeuvre by the target while the inbound SAM is still 70km distant a realistic tactic? I always thought that SAMs were more easily defeated if the target performed a sudden manoeuvre at a shorter distance so that the tiny fins on the SAM could not adjust quickly enough to follow the target. A distance of 70km would allow a SAM to follow the evasive manouevre and make corrections with relative ease. I do not know at what distance the 'sweet spot' might be, but it does not sound reasonable for it to be 70 kilometres.

I edited the punctuation and ordering to make the intent a bit more clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzureSkies

So although the range of the Grumble may only be listed as 75 km, a helicopter may not be safe from even 100 km, and a fast and maneuverable jet will probably be relatively safe at 70 km (if it responds appropriately).

Though maneuvering even at long range can have rather detrimental effects on the missiles' performance, since any maneuvers the missile makes will take energy/cause drag. But the most effective maneuvers will be the ones that maximize the maneuvering of the missile. With the S-300F in particular (what this has been tested with) the missile receives midcourse guidance updates from the launch ship even before it's acquired the target with its own semiactive seeker, meaning maneuvering even at long range will cause it to lose energy by maneuvering in response.

Raptor_341 · 12-15-19, 12:40 AM

Following the project closely - Looks great. If you need any resources on NATO MPA, let me know and I'll see what I can find for you.

Off topic, any chance of seeing the Lun-class ekranoplan modelled, even as a single unit for later campaigns? I believe that would be a first.

Cheers!

AzureSkies · 12-17-19, 11:32 PM

Hello again, everyone.

The best time of year is upon us. Nothing new is ready to show off as of the moment, and with next Tuesday being Christmas Eve, there won't be an update for then, and with the following Tuesday being New Year's Eve, the next update may not be until January 7th, or it may come a day early on December 30th to avoid coming on New Year's Eve - TBD.

But I look forward to showing off something real nice, whenever it comes. It should be ready, then, and she's a real beauty, too, and a bit surprisingly unusual for naval sims.

That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing.

12-02-19, 10:28 PM	#2
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	Damn, those northern lights are pretty cool __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

12-11-19, 05:38 PM	#5
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	WEEKLY UPDATE Hello again, everyone. A day late, but not a dollar short... hopefully. Recent work has continued with more back-end code and implementing radar directors for SAMs. These are pretty important, placing somewhat significant limitations on the engagement and performance abilities of a system (such as some serious performance limitations when engaging enemies from multiple directions), as well as being the vulnerable target of Anti-Radiation Missiles such as the AGM-78 Standard ARM (the predecessor of the AGM-88 HARM, which wouldn't enter service until '85). Knock out a radar director, and the armament of missiles is useless - unless there's another the enemies could use. The guidance simulation also has some interesting realistic effects - like for example, the effective range against a maneuvering target is going to be significantly lower than the effective range against a slower or less maneuvering target. So although the range of the Grumble may only be listed as 75 km, a helicopter may not be safe from even 100 km, and a fast and maneuverable jet will probably be relatively safe at 70 km (if it responds appropriately). And when it comes time to simulate decoys and jamming, it's already halfway written and should work very realistically as well. That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing. Last edited by AzureSkies; 12-12-19 at 01:11 AM.

12-15-19, 12:40 AM	#8
Raptor_341 Loader Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 89 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	Following the project closely - Looks great. If you need any resources on NATO MPA, let me know and I'll see what I can find for you. Off topic, any chance of seeing the Lun-class ekranoplan modelled, even as a single unit for later campaigns? I believe that would be a first. Cheers! __________________ MAD MARK, FULL SCALE!

12-17-19, 11:32 PM	#9
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	WEEKLY UPDATE Hello again, everyone. The best time of year is upon us. Nothing new is ready to show off as of the moment, and with next Tuesday being Christmas Eve, there won't be an update for then, and with the following Tuesday being New Year's Eve, the next update may not be until January 7th, or it may come a day early on December 30th to avoid coming on New Year's Eve - TBD. But I look forward to showing off something real nice, whenever it comes. It should be ready, then, and she's a real beauty, too, and a bit surprisingly unusual for naval sims. That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing.

11-27-19, 05:14 PM	#1
longface Watch Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 24 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Great work, looks wonderful! One thing to add: at low earth orbit, I believe that the lower atmospheric limb becomes visible as a sort of blue haze climbing into space. It would be wonderful to see that modeled! Edit: I see that it's already there to some extent, but it's not all that apparent.

12-03-19, 11:14 AM	#3
BungoJungo Der Kommissar Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Austin, Texas USA Posts: 26 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	Really excited for this, it looks great! Appreciate the updates

12-04-19, 12:24 AM	#4
AzureSkies Blue Water Dev Join Date: Feb 2019 Posts: 95 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hello again, everyone, Much of the work recently has been clearing up programming debt (ie, debugging and optimizing) and code not quite ready to show off, but there is one thing ready to show off: improving the high-altitude visuals with respect to the Earth's atmospheric haze is relatively easy, so here's some update on that. If you find pictures of Earth from the ISS (and make sure it's not a narrow field of view or high-exposure picture) you'll realize the haze is actually very narrow from orbital altitudes. 280 km. From high endo-atmospheric altitudes, it's considerably more visible. After all, this is more than 3x closer to the ground. This kind of altitude may be relevant for things like ballistic missile interception. 80 km. And going down to the service ceiling of the U-2 or SR-71/A-12 spyplanes or the MiG-31 (just a little higher than the MiG-25's service ceiling)... 80,000 feet. Around the service ceiling of most aircraft, 50,000 feet. Familiar as a typical cruising altitude for long airline flights, 30,000 feet. 15,000 feet and just above sea level. That's all for now. Thanks for joining us. Until next time, clear sailing.