Saudi oil fields on fire, but who did it?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Has to add something to my last comment

Sanction or embargo would not be enough, if the attack in SA came from Iran.

The question is:

Will SA wait until the UN have finished their investigation or will they attack as soon as possible

Or will USA conduct this attack on Iran by them self ?

Markus

Why would we do it? It was an attack on Saudi Arabia, let them hit back. Aren't they men? Why does the US have to do the heavy lifting all the time?

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Why would we do it? It was an attack on Saudi Arabia, let them hit back. Aren't they men? Why does the US have to do the heavy lifting all the time?

Take Israel and Russia and other suspicious nations off the list too ...

If Iran didn't do it why don't they help find out who did?

One more clue this is a religeous war about how to serve their God

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Take Israel and Russia and other suspicious nations off the list too ...

If Iran didn't do it why don't they help find out who did?

One more clue this is a religeous war about how to serve their God

No, I meant, why does everyone expect the US to take part in retaliation? Iran did not strike the US, it struck SA. Let SA do the fighting.

I anticipate a new bulletin in a few days: Cruise missiles and drones take out vital part of Iranian oil production. Win win.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

No, I meant, why does everyone expect the US to take part in retaliation? Iran did not strike the US, it struck SA. Let SA do the fighting.

I anticipate a new bulletin in a few days: Cruise missiles and drones take out vital part of Iranian oil production. Win win.

Because KSA is a de-facto long term USA ally.
Because USA is the world policeman.
If USA desires to maintain hegemony and the grip on the global affairs, it may consider reacting to maintain it's relevance.

In the other news - apparently that site was covered by US made air defense systems (ie a Patriot SAM).

[Bilge_Rat]

well, anyone who thinks Iran should be rewarded for its naked aggression by going back to the sweetheart 2015 nuclear deal is as naive as Neville Chamberlain at Munich in 1938.

Yes, the U.S. has to respond, but it has to be the right response.

Just blindly carrying out military strikes just plays into Iran's hands.

Iran attacking saudi Arabia is a major escalation.

Why would they do it? Iran seems to be goading the U.S. into a military response. It strikes me that the situation in Iran must be getting desparate and either the regime is losing control of certain factions or wants to provoke a war to shore up its internal support.

What the U.S. should be doing is following the Bush sr. model from 1990 and trying to build an international coalition with a common plan of action.

If the regime in Tehran is tottering, now is the time to ratchet up sanctions even more.

[Mr Quatro]

There is a story in the Old Testament of the Holy Bible about a city that was besieged by it's enemies and the city was running out of food and water when an old woman came to the gate and yelled at the captain of the army against them, "What is it that you want"?

The captain said the head of your leader .. She said, "You shall have it by morning" She threw the head over the gate the next morning and the army left off destroying the village.

The people of Iran are tired of the 10% of Iran telling them what to do They could stop all of this by throwing someone's head over the wall.

President Trump's hands are tied without Congressional approval which would take weeks in this country, but what a great opportunity we are wasting not to try and put together a way to take out Iran's nuclear ambitions, long range missile programs, navy, air force by surrounding them and threatening just that till they give in or start a war first.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

well, anyone who thinks Iran should be rewarded for its naked aggression by going back to the sweetheart 2015 nuclear deal is as naive as Neville Chamberlain at Munich in 1938.

Yes, the U.S. has to respond, but it has to be the right response.

Just blindly carrying out military strikes just plays into Iran's hands.

Iran attacking saudi Arabia is a major escalation.

Why would they do it? Iran seems to be goading the U.S. into a military response. It strikes me that the situation in Iran must be getting desparate and either the regime is losing control of certain factions or wants to provoke a war to shore up its internal support.

What the U.S. should be doing is following the Bush sr. model from 1990 and trying to build an international coalition with a common plan of action.

If the regime in Tehran is tottering, now is the time to ratchet up sanctions even more.

They have been firing ballistic missiles into KSA for years now and sunk one of their amphibious transport ships with an anti ship missile. You really should be aware of the context of this long proxy war.
As such I do not see why you view this as an actual escalation apart from the possible effect of being (mis)informed by US media.

In terms of why this has happened - US torpedoed yet another key arms control deal over dubious allegations of non compliance, possibly to support their KSA allies in this proxy war.

And US feels good about it.

Below, coverage of the patriot site radar and apparent direction the attack came from.

KSA was probably preparing against the ballistic missile threat from Yemen.

[mapuc]

I personally hope there are not going to be any war
I hope sanctions will be more than enough.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

They have been firing ballistic missiles into KSA for years now and sunk one of their amphibious transport ships with an anti ship missile. You really should be aware of the context of this long proxy war.
As such I do not see why you view this as an actual escalation apart from the possible effect of being (mis)informed by US media.

Really? How often has someone knocked out 50% of their oil production? Is that a routine occurrence?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Why would we do it? It was an attack on Saudi Arabia, let them hit back. Aren't they men? Why does the US have to do the heavy lifting all the time?

Absolutely, I tend to tick the same way. I only add that not reacting to this means that America can in the medium run say goodbye to its credibility in the ME region, which already has suffered due to the 2003 story and then Obama. If America wants to clean ME off its diplomatci list and get untied from it, then you are fine. The vacuum will be filled by China and Russia. If you are fine with that too, fine again.



But if you want to continue playing an influential role in that part of the world, for whatever your reasons are, you cannot afford not to react to this, since you claim SA to be your most important ally in the Arab world.


Whether it should be that, remains a subject for discussion.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Absolutely, I tend to tick the same way. I only add that not reacting to this means that America can in the medium run say goodbye to its credibility in the ME region, which already has suffered due to the 2003 story and then Obama. If America wants to clean ME off its diplomatci list and get untied from it, then you are fine. The vacuum will be filled by China and Russia. If you are fine with that too, fine again.



But if you want to continue playing an influential role in that part of the world, for whatever your reasons are, you cannot afford not to react to this, since you claim SA to be your most important ally in the Arab world.


Whether it should be that, remains a subject for discussion.

Nicely put, I agree with your summary. I vote we the US hand over the ME influential role to Russia, China, or anyone else who wants it.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Nicely put, I agree with your summary. I vote we the US hand over the ME influential role to Russia, China, or anyone else who wants it.

I could understand that. And if I were you/the US, I would probably decide to go that direction, too.
Which as a consequence means I would untie the US from NATO, too.

[Jimbuna]

Saudi Arabia's defence ministry has shown off what is says is wreckage of drones and cruise missiles that prove Iranian involvement in weekend attacks on two oil facilities.

It said 18 drones and seven cruise missiles struck from a direction that ruled out Yemen as a source.

Yemen's Iran-backed Houthi rebels had said they were behind the attacks.

Iran has denied any involvement and warned it would retaliate against any military response.

The Saudi defence ministry briefing said the wreckage showed the attacks were “unquestionably sponsored by Iran”.

A spokesman showed off what was said to be a delta wing of an Iranian UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) along with other weapons debris.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-49746645

Interesting and hopefully some filmed/photographic evidence will be shown later today.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Why would we do it? It was an attack on Saudi Arabia, let them hit back. Aren't they men? Why does the US have to do the heavy lifting all the time?

I understand you and millions of other Americans who is tired, every time a politicians from the rest of the world phone you when they are in trouble.

I can only say or put forward what they have said in our news channel/program

If the attack came from Iran, USA can not just sit there on its back and do nothing, Trump have to show he mean business.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

I understand you and millions of other Americans who is tired, every time a politicians from the rest of the world phone you when they are in trouble.

I can only say or put forward what they have said in our news channel/program

If the attack came from Iran, USA can not just sit there on its back and do nothing, Trump have to show he mean business.

Markus

I dont think we are doing nothing. I think the sanctions are having the desired effect. I think these attacks may be sign Rouhani is struggling to stay in power by supporting acts of aggression to cover his political weakness. Kinda like a cornered rat. A shooting war could be used by Rouhani politically to unite internal opposition against outside agression. The last thing on any western powers list of things to do, is to return fire. I suggest we just sit back and watch him squirm.