...This is it?

[Enigma]

So, first off, dont get me wrong here. I am enjoying playing DW, especially learning all about the various platforms and the functions and systems involved. However, I have to admit im very disapointed by the campagin so far. Granted, ive only been playing from the US perspective so far, but...cmon! first 4 missions are for me to drive around, poke the periscope up, and click mark until the mission is complete? Yesterday, I was tasked to "find" an aircraft carrier. Well, i sailed silent on the heading the mission started on...picked up a sound contact at 12 o'clock, poked my scope up, saw a carrier sailing right at me, ..."Mission Complete" Literally all I did was raise the scope! After that, I was tasked with sinking some rebel subs. There were some allied subs along with me in the area. Well, they sunk everything as I approached and attempted to identify targets, "Mission Complete"...without firing a shot! Again, Im enjoying it for the most part...but the campaign is a real disapointment....

[TLAM Strike]

The default campagin does suck. I think its just a proof of concept for what could be done with the engine. Go to subguru and grab some real missions and go to the CADC and get the old RSR campgain (a newer verson should be out sometime in the future.)

[Enigma]

Sorry, the CADC??

By far, the best missions ive played yet have been custom missions from Subguru...

[TLAM Strike]

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/index.php

Not to sound ungrateful, but Sonalysts aren't games producers. And it shows. 1 year to bring out the Euro version...and you hardly see it on sale anywhere. Then they wont allow us to make our own playable platforms because they want the possibility to bring out expansions.

Newsflash: By the time they release the expansion, we'll have to sell our computers and buy old secondhand ones which will be able to play the game.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

...and you hardly see it on sale anywhere.

In fairness thats not SCS's fault but the distributer's.

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Then they wont allow us to make our own playable platforms because they want the possibility to bring out expansions.

If we did that their other customers (the US Military) might do as well and they would go out of buisness. Not making new playables helps preserve America's freedom in a way... <0

[Enigma]

Thnaks for the link TLAM...

[Syxx_Killer]

The RSR campaign does sound interesting. However, would it be possible for someone to upload it to a site like Rapidshare? I don't really want to create an account over there just to download that one file. Also, does anyone know when Bill will put the campaign back up on his site?

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Enigma

After that, I was tasked with sinking some rebel subs. There were some allied subs along with me in the area. Well, they sunk everything as I approached and attempted to identify targets, "Mission Complete"...without firing a shot! Again, Im enjoying it for the most part...but the campaign is a real disapointment....

I think the first campaign is interesting only in so far as it is a good source for ideas. Another problem is that given the plot, it's actually pretty difficult to come up with challenging scenarios on a strictly tactical level so it bleeds over into the operational level sometimes. In that case, the scenario is best played in Harpoon, not DW. In the Harpoon forum, they call that "scenario creep" where you find your scenario starts to grow into some kind of grand strategic model, but the problem you were intially interested in experimenting with gets lost.

I think in DW the danger is even more obvious, given the tendancy for naval warfare to be as much about NTDS data links, distributed sensors, and sharing information among platforms. It's very teamwork oriented, and becoming more so. DW is not good at portraying that beyond a small number of platforms, though. Given the tactical focus of the game, when you create a scenario you really need to boil it down to the central problem and assume away a lot of things.

[LuftWolf]

Another problem that people run into with the stock game is that the AI is severely limited both in terms of sensors and logic.

We've tried in LWAMI to address this when possible... people report that missions designed for the stock game are usually more challenging and fun when using the mod because the AI has some real ability. So, in actually, the core parts of DW are very well done, they are just shackled by the doctrines and database taken from Fleet Command/688i/SC.

[Enigma]

I guess what I was hoping I would get out of the game was something like, sneaking a team of Spec Ops behind enemy lines, following a Russian Boomer around to learn his patrol routes, parking off the coast of Russia and eavesdropping, observing test missile launches conducted by other Navies, and most of all, sending an advanced package of TLAMS to high priority targets..(Communications, weapons, chemical, outposts, defenses, etc)

Originally Posted by Enigma

I guess what I was hoping I would get out of the game was something like, sneaking a team of Spec Ops behind enemy lines, following a Russian Boomer around to learn his patrol routes, parking off the coast of Russia and eavesdropping, observing test missile launches conducted by other Navies, and most of all, sending an advanced package of TLAMS to high priority targets..(Communications, weapons, chemical, outposts, defenses, etc)

Are you joking? That would be expecting too much! You'll get 1998 graphics, a poor campaign and pay for a printed manual...and like it! Or it's off to bed without supper for you!!

Oh...and no playing with modded controllable platforms...you naughty boy!

[Enigma]

Umm, yeah. Thats pretty much how I feel.

Its still a cool program, but at this point, I cant justify the cost at all...its a $20 title at best.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Enigma

I guess what I was hoping I would get out of the game was something like, sneaking a team of Spec Ops behind enemy lines, following a Russian Boomer around to learn his patrol routes, parking off the coast of Russia and eavesdropping, observing test missile launches conducted by other Navies, and most of all, sending an advanced package of TLAMS to high priority targets..(Communications, weapons, chemical, outposts, defenses, etc)

You can do all of these things in DW, hell, you could do all that in sub command!

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Enigma

I guess what I was hoping I would get out of the game was something like, sneaking a team of Spec Ops behind enemy lines, following a Russian Boomer around to learn his patrol routes, parking off the coast of Russia and eavesdropping, observing test missile launches conducted by other Navies, and most of all, sending an advanced package of TLAMS to high priority targets..(Communications, weapons, chemical, outposts, defenses, etc)

Regarding track and trail scenarios... I have a draft of exactly that. I tried to model a SOSUS datum, and a rough picture of what the distribution of target locations within the AOU would be. Then.. I created some uncertainty about exactly where his patrol areas would be. They could be anywhere in a region too large to efficiently search. It's TOUGH. There's still a lot missing in the scenario, though.

I'm not sure people will like it, though. It takes HOURS to play through, and you might only have one chance of winning. If you miss your one detection opportunity you have no hope of following him. I made it in two verisons. The one you get an MPA and the other you have bad weather and no MPA.

Heh... who knows... people might like it, though. I'm still reeling over people enjoying my Kara Sea Strategic ASW scenario.

Some of what I think you're complaining about isn't a shortcoming of DW, it's a shortcoming of a lot of the missions out there. That's why I've leaned increasingly in the direction of creating my own, which are challenging and interesting for me.