First Suffren SSN to be inaugurated on July 12th.

UglyMowgli · 07-14-19, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Thanks a lot for that. So to clarify, currently French SSBNs use clip on style towed arrays?

So far yes, the reel system take a lot of space especially on the SSN (the Amethyste class is still the smaller nuclear attack sub in the world) and it's less complicated to have a clip-on and it less hole in the hull.

For the Suffren SSN I don't known maybe they have an ECA TA deploying/retrieving system but those who known will not say a word.

Rufus Shinra · 07-14-19, 03:42 PM

Yeah, I just asked around and was confirmed (as well as confirmed that it isn't in any way confidential, the whole process being done in a visible way outside the port) that the towed array on the French SSN and SSBN are just clipped on and dropped when in proximity of the home base. Simple, fail-safe system that reduces the risks of technical failures. Plus, neither the SSBN (for obvious reasons) nor the SSN are sprinters, so less situations where they'd need to reel the array in to avoid breaking it.

For Suffren, I wonder (personal guess, I'm definitely not going to ask anything about it) whether it could be possible to shape the pump-jet in a way that would allow storage of the TA there, or maybe on the sides.

Now, here's on a specialized blog some interesting information (in French): https://lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot...ositif-de.html

One of the SSBN, Le Tonnant experimented a towed array retrieval system, but the nature of the mission of the boomer led to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth it. In a recent book about French SSN, there's a picture of early plans that involves a deployment system:

Though, as you can very likely guess, that image isn't in any way representative of the actual submarine (no pump-jet, the screw being shown - which immediately excludes this picture from being about the real thing - and of course the presence of an array support near the control bars which isn't in the boat inaugurated a few days ago), but it seems to show that it was envisioned. It might also be a CGI of a Barracuda variant, like the one successfully sold to Australia or a possible candidate for the Dutch Navy.

Other option to consider: the Suffren is designed to receive an optional SF minisubmarine hangar behind the tower, so maybe there could be a modular towed array system to be mounted there too? Though the technology is mastered already.

ikalugin · 07-14-19, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli

So far yes, the reel system take a lot of space especially on the SSN (the Amethyste class is still the smaller nuclear attack sub in the world) and it's less complicated to have a clip-on and it less hole in the hull.

For the Suffren SSN I don't known maybe they have an ECA TA deploying/retrieving system but those who known will not say a word.

SSBNs are big boats, they should have all the space, I mean we place towed on all nuclear boats and some conventional boats (Ladas) while offering it for Kilos.

So French SSBNs not having the towed seems very weird.

UglyMowgli · 07-14-19, 04:51 PM

French military engineers / DGA always go for the most reliable system, with the lowest maintenance, space and weight , either for the submarines or the fighter planes. No Dassault planes have a retractable fuel probe for that reason.

Even if a SSBN has a lot of space, if the need of a retractable towed array has been evaluated to have more drawbacks than advantages, the space could be used to add more food, more redundant systems, more noise reduction systems, ......

And yes French SSBN have Towed Array but not internal.

The US subs had snap on until the 70's, here some stories:

https://www.quora.com/Is-a-towed-arr...t-always-towed

Rufus Shinra · 07-14-19, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

SSBNs are big boats, they should have all the space, I mean we place towed on all nuclear boats and some conventional boats (Ladas) while offering it for Kilos.

So French SSBNs not having the towed seems very weird.

From what I asked, the snap on procedure is done on the boomers while surfaced near l'Île Longue, and the specialized blog post indicates that a retrieval system was experimented on a Redoutable-class SSBN a few decades ago before the conclusion was reached that it was an unnecessary complexity considering the boomer's missions. These boats leave Brest, "dilute" themselves in the Atlantic and come back to Brest, all at creep speeds. The retrieval system is therefore deemed not required.

Exocet25fr · 07-23-19, 03:29 PM

Rufus Shinra · 12-19-19, 02:39 AM

Update: Suffren's nuclear reactor has been activated successfully.

ikalugin · 12-19-19, 11:22 PM

Good to hear. Physical launch of the reactor is an important step.

ikalugin · 12-23-19, 12:12 AM

An observation on SSN build times.

I

07-23-19, 03:29 PM	#6
Exocet25fr Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Paris/France Posts: 1,135 Downloads: 255 Uploads: 0	__________________ \"Le Triomphant\" listens you !

12-19-19, 11:22 PM	#8
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Good to hear. Physical launch of the reactor is an important step. __________________ Grumpy as always.

12-23-19, 12:12 AM	#9
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	An observation on SSN build times. I __________________ Grumpy as always.

07-14-19, 03:42 PM	#2
Rufus Shinra Soundman Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: The land of the free with a glorious military history (France) Posts: 141 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I just asked around and was confirmed (as well as confirmed that it isn't in any way confidential, the whole process being done in a visible way outside the port) that the towed array on the French SSN and SSBN are just clipped on and dropped when in proximity of the home base. Simple, fail-safe system that reduces the risks of technical failures. Plus, neither the SSBN (for obvious reasons) nor the SSN are sprinters, so less situations where they'd need to reel the array in to avoid breaking it. For Suffren, I wonder (personal guess, I'm definitely not going to ask anything about it) whether it could be possible to shape the pump-jet in a way that would allow storage of the TA there, or maybe on the sides. Now, here's on a specialized blog some interesting information (in French): https://lefauteuildecolbert.blogspot...ositif-de.html One of the SSBN, Le Tonnant experimented a towed array retrieval system, but the nature of the mission of the boomer led to the conclusion that it wasn't really worth it. In a recent book about French SSN, there's a picture of early plans that involves a deployment system: Though, as you can very likely guess, that image isn't in any way representative of the actual submarine (no pump-jet, the screw being shown - which immediately excludes this picture from being about the real thing - and of course the presence of an array support near the control bars which isn't in the boat inaugurated a few days ago), but it seems to show that it was envisioned. It might also be a CGI of a Barracuda variant, like the one successfully sold to Australia or a possible candidate for the Dutch Navy. Other option to consider: the Suffren is designed to receive an optional SF minisubmarine hangar behind the tower, so maybe there could be a modular towed array system to be mounted there too? Though the technology is mastered already.

07-14-19, 04:51 PM	#4
UglyMowgli Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 784 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	French military engineers / DGA always go for the most reliable system, with the lowest maintenance, space and weight , either for the submarines or the fighter planes. No Dassault planes have a retractable fuel probe for that reason. Even if a SSBN has a lot of space, if the need of a retractable towed array has been evaluated to have more drawbacks than advantages, the space could be used to add more food, more redundant systems, more noise reduction systems, ...... And yes French SSBN have Towed Array but not internal. The US subs had snap on until the 70's, here some stories: https://www.quora.com/Is-a-towed-arr...t-always-towed

12-19-19, 02:39 AM	#7
Rufus Shinra Soundman Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: The land of the free with a glorious military history (France) Posts: 141 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Update: Suffren's nuclear reactor has been activated successfully.