First Suffren SSN to be inaugurated on July 12th.

[ikalugin]

France is not the only (or first) country using main hybrid electric drive for SSNs.

To be honest I think the displacement is more of a consequence of French requirements - for the minimal SSN, particularly armament wise.

As that navigational accident - have you ever seen a towed array on the French boomer?

[Rufus Shinra]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

France is not the only (or first) country using main hybrid electric drive for SSNs.

IIRC, it's the first series-SSN to have one. I think a couple of boats were made with this during the Cold War by the US but with the technology left aside for not being good enough then. From what I see, only Tulibee and Glenard P. Liscomb ever used turbo-electric transmission, the solution having shown insufficient speed performance back then to be used in the LA class, and I haven't heard either Virginia or Seawolf having it. I think the Columbia SSBN will have a hybrid drive, though.


Maybe the new Russian boats have a hybrid drive, but I'm not aware of it, not having much information on these.

To be honest I think the displacement is more of a consequence of French requirements - for the minimal SSN, particularly armament wise.

Heh, we're not planning to fight the entire Russian navy head-on. 24 weapons are enough for most realistic scenarios.

As that navigational accident - have you ever seen a towed array on the French boomer?

Problem with the "human error", "technological weakness" or "incompetence" scenario is that it also requires a Royal Navy boomer crew to fail just as hard. And if you think the Her Majesty's Silent Service is LARPing Down Periscope...

In the end, the fact is that a Vanguard-class SSBN on patrol couldn't notice its counterpart in time to avoid a collision. That alone should say a lot about the discretion of both boats.

Oh, and to your question, yes, the French boomer has a towed array, a DSUV 61B. Source (in French): http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13...a3809-tVII.pdf Search "DSUV" and you'll find the reference on page 216, the acronym SNLE being SSBN in French, while "antenne remorquée" means "towed array".

[ikalugin]

Yes, Kazan has been launched over two years ago and now is in trials. On previous generations the use of electric drive in any significant capacity was questionable, as per same signature reduciton requirements it was heavier/bulkier than the geared turbine.

Yes, that depends on your requirements, Brits did build a larger and more capable (atleast weapons wise) SSN though. Also use of low aperture cylindrical bow is a questionable choice.

Yes, it is in the documentation (thanks for the link etc), but have you ever seen a towed array housing? I haven't, which makes me curious.

[Rufus Shinra]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Yes, Kazan has been launched over two years ago and now is in trials. On previous generations the use of electric drive in any significant capacity was questionable, as per same signature reduciton requirements it was heavier/bulkier than the geared turbine.

OK, didn't know much for Russian subs. At least, it seems to be a new development for Western subs.

Yes, that depends on your requirements, Brits did build a larger and more capable (atleast weapons wise) SSN though. Also use of low aperture cylindrical bow is a questionable choice.

I don't know that much about the comparative advantages and drawbacks of spherical VS cylindrical, though I did remember reading about some advantages for the latter, at least for specific parameters. Though, yes, it'll depend on the requirements, and ours are pretty different from US and Russian ones, in that we don't really plan to fight massive naval battles: if a SSN of ours needed more than two dozen weapons, something would have gone massively, massively wrong and the next step would probably involve SSBN. It won't chase down a CVBG either or spam it with dozens of cruise missiles. OTOH, for projection capabilities, making sure noone tries a Falklands on us, or reminding secondary powers that buying a SSK or a SSN, even an advanced one, won't change the balance of power, or supporting the kind of operation we pull regularly? It's a superb tool, IMO. Plus, electric drive combined with F-21 torpedoes should make a lot of people paranoid. XD

Yes, it is in the documentation (thanks for the link etc), but have you ever seen a towed array housing? I haven't, which makes me curious.

I haven't either, but I haven't gotten close enough to our SSBN to say. And if its position isn't indicated on official pictures and documentation...

[UglyMowgli]

You didn't see any TA on french SSBN or SSN for one good reason, they are deployed / retrieved by a specialized ship called "Caudataires" when the sub leave or come back to l'ile Longue (base of the french SNLE) or Toulon (base of the SSN).


There is 2 of this specialized ship in service the Phaéton (Y 656) and Machaon (Y 657)






The system TA called ETBF in french is made by ECA group. Here what they look like.





A new system exist (there is not known photo just a drawing) it should equip the SSBN (retrofit) and new SSN (Suffren class)

[Rufus Shinra]

Originally Posted by UglyMowgli

You didn't see any TA on french SSBN or SSN for one good reason, they are deployed / retrieved by a specialized ship called "Caudataires" when the sub leave or come back to l'ile Longue (base of the french SNLE) or Toulon (base of the SSN).


There is 2 of this specialized ship in service the Phaéton (Y 656) and Machaon (Y 657)






The system TA called ETBF in french is made by ECA group. Here what they look like.





A new system exist (there is not known photo just a drawing) it should equip the SSBN (retrofit) and new SSN (Suffren class)

I didn't know about this system, however, I have a correction to add, after some quick check, in that it seems the ETBF isn't a towed sonar array, but a towed radio antenna, which is also mounted on other French-made boats.

Source: https://envelopmer.blogspot.com/2014...haeton-et.html


EDIT: second correction, it might be that the system can work with multiple kind of towed antennas, but I have issues finding clear sources saying it does it, most detailed sources talk about ETBF being for a VLF radio antenna but I guess it could also be used for a towed array sonar.

[ikalugin]

Thanks a lot for that. So to clarify, currently French SSBNs use clip on style towed arrays?