A neat little trick? - Page 2

06-03-06, 05:39 AM

Sorry to break it to you all, but using an exploit is considered cheating. They used to ban you at Aces High (without possibility of a refund) if they found you using an exploit. And that was without possibility of a refund (not good if you paid a year upfront). And you know what....that still didn't deter people.

Molon Labe · 06-03-06, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Sorry to break it to you all, but using an exploit is considered cheating. They used to ban you at Aces High (without possibility of a refund) if they found you using an exploit. And that was without possibility of a refund (not good if you paid a year upfront). And you know what....that still didn't deter people.

I think we're trying to hold off on a characterization until we know exactly what it is that's happening.

goldorak · 06-03-06, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I think we're trying to hold off on a characterization until we know exactly what it is that's happening.

Exactly, witch hunting season is still closed.

06-03-06, 10:17 AM

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I was speaking in general terms, not about this person in particular. If he did use an exploit then he should be HUNG, DRAWN AND QUARTERED!

. If he didn't, he can have my rations of rum as apology...

Fish · 06-03-06, 12:31 PM

Agree with ML and Goldorak here.
About exploiting such things, I know in 688 all kinds of exploits are used, for example after six years of multiplayer someone found you could "easely" evade torpedos, going all back emergencie, using High Freq sonar to follow the torps.
Also you can go 40 knts at the surface following shallow torpedos with your radar.
I don't think we should punish a diver for using a SLMM as a decoy, in war you use all you have to survive. It's not a cheat in my opinion and when you don't like what he is doing your free to look for a other diver.
As ML< I tested the SLMM as decoy, but the torps won't be spoofed.
Remember the Chinees (Worker) are restricted in there internet use bij the Chinees covernment, I wonder if that has something to do with the problem. cq LAG.

Molon Labe · 06-03-06, 01:49 PM

Well, I didn't see any sign of lag in that replay, nor did the torpedo/SLMM/whatever it was appear to act as a decoy. The fact that I couldn't get the behavior to repeat is not exclulpatory, it just means I can't figure out what's going on yet. (Had I been able to repeat it, I might have been able to see what's going on in debug mode).

If it is the case that there is something quirky in the doctrine that is being taken advantage of, then I would not file this under "using what you have to survive."

Orm · 06-03-06, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Well, I didn't see any sign of lag in that replay, nor did the torpedo/SLMM/whatever it was appear to act as a decoy. The fact that I couldn't get the behavior to repeat is not exclulpatory, it just means I can't figure out what's going on yet. (Had I been able to repeat it, I might have been able to see what's going on in debug mode).

If it is the case that there is something quirky in the doctrine that is being taken advantage of, then I would not file this under "using what you have to survive."

Or it could be that you can see it only if you have change yourself some parts of the doctrine?

Fish · 06-03-06, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orm

Or it could be that you can see it only if you have change yourself some parts of the doctrine?

That would,'t work I think, because the game uses the hosts doctrine, and that was Swims.

06-03-06, 05:46 PM

Anyone who uses a method, not meant by the game designers (and thus unrealistic), to evade torpedos/sink ships etc. Is using an exploit. Eploitation of bugs is cheating.

Yes, you do everything you can to survive in a war...but this is not war. Don't know if you noticed?

Nothing will happen to you if you get downed by a gaming torp, except lose a bit of pride.

Anyone who can't handle being bettered in a game and has to resort to cheating, is pathetic. My opinion.

swimsalot · 06-03-06, 09:28 PM

I think the replay is fairly clear in regards to what was done.
As for it being reproducible, I haven't had the time to set up the dive conditions and try it myself.
My personal opinion is that he has figured out a way to exploit the torpedo homing doctrine.
As for wether or not that is "cheating", that is up to the individual, I guess.
For the record, the only reason I became suspicious is that the same person has been mentioned now a few times in these forums for "curious" activity.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"

goldorak · 06-03-06, 09:50 PM

The point is that you have no proof.
If we start accusing everybody just because some wierd things happens in DW (modded or vanilla) soon we won't have anybody to play against.

Now if this behaviour was reproducible that would be a good sign of "cheating" but as the situation stands now the guy should just have the benefit of the doubt.

In the end I think that before going "public" with outcries of the type : some wierd things happened but are not reproducible -> someone's using a cheat,
why not keep the issue "private", have a number of senior players or well respected players have a look at the situation and try to find the cause of this behaviour.
If nothing conclusive is found no need to render it public.
If on the other hand you have scientific proof of cheating going on then
by all means make the situation publicly known to the community.

06-04-06, 09:00 AM

Ok, I didn't even know the person in question was a member of this forum. I just thought it was a random bod. Otherwise I would've been more tactful.

Though my rant was a more general one, anyway.

swimsalot · 06-05-06, 02:23 PM

As I have stated a few times, I don't think this is a cheat in the technical sense; to be honest, my intent was to let others in the community, including alot of people I like, know about this.
If I see a tactic that I think is "dirty", I will let the world know, so we can come up with a way to defeat it.
In the past I did the same thing about a sub sitting in 30 feet of water when I was in a P3.

Since I was the host, my understanding is that it can't be a database switch, so I just feel it's a "dirty" tactic, and I let people know.
If they choose to dive with the person now, it's up to them.
EDIT: A "friend" of this individual just let me know that he admits he was using a SLMM.

06-05-06, 03:47 PM

Well I feel I have to apologise again to the person concerned...wish I knew beforehand the person in question was a forum member. Can't imagine anyone here cheating.
How about making it more pleasurabe to lose? Naked babe comes up on screen when a torpedo blows your sub to pieces..? :hmm:

swimsalot · 06-05-06, 07:56 PM

I disagree about a need to apologize, sir.
I see the tactic of driving in front of an SLMM is taking advantage of a torp seeker code that Sonalysts is either unaware of or didn't forsee the possibility.
My understanding is that a real MK48 would probably kill the sub anyways, and go right by the SLMM.
Therefore, I see this as an exploit of an inherent weakness in the torp seeker doctrine.
To me, that is dirty. Maybe not technically a cheat, but not my style of play.
I see no need to apologize for pointing out that some players
(1 at least) use this tactic.

06-03-06, 01:49 PM	#21
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	Well, I didn't see any sign of lag in that replay, nor did the torpedo/SLMM/whatever it was appear to act as a decoy. The fact that I couldn't get the behavior to repeat is not exclulpatory, it just means I can't figure out what's going on yet. (Had I been able to repeat it, I might have been able to see what's going on in debug mode). If it is the case that there is something quirky in the doctrine that is being taken advantage of, then I would not file this under "using what you have to survive." __________________

06-05-06, 02:23 PM	#28
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	As I have stated a few times, I don't think this is a cheat in the technical sense; to be honest, my intent was to let others in the community, including alot of people I like, know about this. If I see a tactic that I think is "dirty", I will let the world know, so we can come up with a way to defeat it. In the past I did the same thing about a sub sitting in 30 feet of water when I was in a P3. Since I was the host, my understanding is that it can't be a database switch, so I just feel it's a "dirty" tactic, and I let people know. If they choose to dive with the person now, it's up to them. EDIT: A "friend" of this individual just let me know that he admits he was using a SLMM. Last edited by swimsalot; 06-05-06 at 02:25 PM.

06-05-06, 03:47 PM	#29
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Well I feel I have to apologise again to the person concerned...wish I knew beforehand the person in question was a forum member. Can't imagine anyone here cheating. How about making it more pleasurabe to lose? Naked babe comes up on screen when a torpedo blows your sub to pieces..? :hmm: Last edited by Kurushio; 06-05-06 at 03:51 PM.

06-03-06, 05:39 AM	#16
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Sorry to break it to you all, but using an exploit is considered cheating. They used to ban you at Aces High (without possibility of a refund) if they found you using an exploit. And that was without possibility of a refund (not good if you paid a year upfront). And you know what....that still didn't deter people.

06-03-06, 10:17 AM	#19
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I was speaking in general terms, not about this person in particular. If he did use an exploit then he should be HUNG, DRAWN AND QUARTERED! . If he didn't, he can have my rations of rum as apology...

06-03-06, 12:31 PM	#20
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Agree with ML and Goldorak here. About exploiting such things, I know in 688 all kinds of exploits are used, for example after six years of multiplayer someone found you could "easely" evade torpedos, going all back emergencie, using High Freq sonar to follow the torps. Also you can go 40 knts at the surface following shallow torpedos with your radar. I don't think we should punish a diver for using a SLMM as a decoy, in war you use all you have to survive. It's not a cheat in my opinion and when you don't like what he is doing your free to look for a other diver. As ML< I tested the SLMM as decoy, but the torps won't be spoofed. Remember the Chinees (Worker) are restricted in there internet use bij the Chinees covernment, I wonder if that has something to do with the problem. cq LAG.

06-03-06, 05:46 PM	#24
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Anyone who uses a method, not meant by the game designers (and thus unrealistic), to evade torpedos/sink ships etc. Is using an exploit. Eploitation of bugs is cheating. Yes, you do everything you can to survive in a war...but this is not war. Don't know if you noticed? Nothing will happen to you if you get downed by a gaming torp, except lose a bit of pride. Anyone who can't handle being bettered in a game and has to resort to cheating, is pathetic. My opinion.

06-03-06, 09:28 PM	#25
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think the replay is fairly clear in regards to what was done. As for it being reproducible, I haven't had the time to set up the dive conditions and try it myself. My personal opinion is that he has figured out a way to exploit the torpedo homing doctrine. As for wether or not that is "cheating", that is up to the individual, I guess. For the record, the only reason I became suspicious is that the same person has been mentioned now a few times in these forums for "curious" activity. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!"

06-03-06, 09:50 PM	#26
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	The point is that you have no proof. If we start accusing everybody just because some wierd things happens in DW (modded or vanilla) soon we won't have anybody to play against. Now if this behaviour was reproducible that would be a good sign of "cheating" but as the situation stands now the guy should just have the benefit of the doubt. In the end I think that before going "public" with outcries of the type : some wierd things happened but are not reproducible -> someone's using a cheat, why not keep the issue "private", have a number of senior players or well respected players have a look at the situation and try to find the cause of this behaviour. If nothing conclusive is found no need to render it public. If on the other hand you have scientific proof of cheating going on then by all means make the situation publicly known to the community.

06-04-06, 09:00 AM	#27
Kurushio Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Ok, I didn't even know the person in question was a member of this forum. I just thought it was a random bod. Otherwise I would've been more tactful. Though my rant was a more general one, anyway.

06-05-06, 07:56 PM	#30
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I disagree about a need to apologize, sir. I see the tactic of driving in front of an SLMM is taking advantage of a torp seeker code that Sonalysts is either unaware of or didn't forsee the possibility. My understanding is that a real MK48 would probably kill the sub anyways, and go right by the SLMM. Therefore, I see this as an exploit of an inherent weakness in the torp seeker doctrine. To me, that is dirty. Maybe not technically a cheat, but not my style of play. I see no need to apologize for pointing out that some players (1 at least) use this tactic.